Okay, this should be a simple question. I don't know the rules used to figure out what a persons max resistance is or the reason behind it, but it only makes sense that there would be SOME limit, attainable by all races, but harder for some than others:
Troll has -30 to fire, therefore if limit for all classes is 90, said character would need to wear equipment with a total fire protection of +120 fire o get to 90.
Fireborne has -30 to cold (I think that's what I have), therefore to get to 90 I would have to wear +120 cold to get to 90..
Well, I think thats the way it SHOULD work (anyone care to discuss this?) but it's not the way it does work. As a fireborne I get really cold really quick, so I managed to get +120 worth of cold protection (just to test things out).. Well, the maximum I can get in cold resistance is 68.. What is that 68 number?
Why if I start at -30 and add +120 protection I cannot get to 90? I agree there should be a max (maybe 95, maybe 90), but I think it should be attainable by a race.. Items are magical, and should stack I would think..
Any developers/designers care to comment?
Thanks!
How do resistances work? Are they broke?
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Leaf
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Re: How do resistances work? Are they broke?
I'm not a developer/designer, but I'll respond anyway..Zortan wrote:
Any developers/designers care to comment?
The first item you wear (or spell) with grant the full partial resistance value against the listed attack type. The second item (or spell) will grant approximately half of it's normal partial resistance value. For instance: You are wearing two Rings of Ice (resist cold +30); the first ring allows for resist cold +30, wearing the second ring will result in resist cold +45 (30/2 = 15 + 30 -> 45). You then decide to use the spell Protection From Cold (resist cold +20), you now have a total partial resistance score of +55 (20/2 = 10 + 45 -> 55).
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Zortan
So is the order you put equipment on matters, or is the half-resistance penalty only against same-type equipment (ie two rings, or two amulets, etc.)
So if I put on armour, cloak, ring for 100 cold each (I know these items do not exist)..
Would my resistance be 100 + 50 + 25 (or 175) or would it be 300?
Also.. If items were 25 50 and 100 cold respectively, and I put them in that order, would I get 100 resistance, but if I put them in a reverse order, I would get 137?
Sorry, just curious how things work.. I'm asking because with me starting at -30 cold, I put on an item with 95 cold resistance, which should give me 65, then I have couple rings of ice for +30 cold each, so I would have expected (according to my understanding of your formula:
-30 (natural) + 95 (item 1) + 30/2 (ring 1) + 30/4 (ring 2) = 87.5, but I'm ONLY getting 68 MAX unless I quaff a potion of cold resistance to bring me up to 90...
So if I put on armour, cloak, ring for 100 cold each (I know these items do not exist)..
Would my resistance be 100 + 50 + 25 (or 175) or would it be 300?
Also.. If items were 25 50 and 100 cold respectively, and I put them in that order, would I get 100 resistance, but if I put them in a reverse order, I would get 137?
Sorry, just curious how things work.. I'm asking because with me starting at -30 cold, I put on an item with 95 cold resistance, which should give me 65, then I have couple rings of ice for +30 cold each, so I would have expected (according to my understanding of your formula:
-30 (natural) + 95 (item 1) + 30/2 (ring 1) + 30/4 (ring 2) = 87.5, but I'm ONLY getting 68 MAX unless I quaff a potion of cold resistance to bring me up to 90...
I just checked the code, from what I get an item gives the 'real' resistance computed as follow:
resistance given by item = missing points to 100 * item's percentage
So if you have 20% resist cold, and wear a ring 50%, you get ( 100 - 20 ) * 50% = 40 points more, that is 60% cold resist.
Or, with 45% resist fire, a 60% resist fire ring would give ( 100 - 45 ) * 60% = 33, for a total of 78% fire resist.
A potion will on the other hand grant 90 or 95% total.
The only way to have immunity is thus to have straight 100%
resistance given by item = missing points to 100 * item's percentage
So if you have 20% resist cold, and wear a ring 50%, you get ( 100 - 20 ) * 50% = 40 points more, that is 60% cold resist.
Or, with 45% resist fire, a 60% resist fire ring would give ( 100 - 45 ) * 60% = 33, for a total of 78% fire resist.
A potion will on the other hand grant 90 or 95% total.
The only way to have immunity is thus to have straight 100%
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Leaf
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First, _HUGE THANKS!!_ to Ryo for explaining this. I guess the examples I used were flawed math or just worked out the way they did by coincidence.
100 - 95 = 5
[100 - (item in question) = resistance modifier]
5 * 30% = 1.5
[resistance modifier * second layer of resistance = cumlative resistance from items]
Assuming the example stopped there, the character would have ~97% (95 + 1.5) resistance with these 2 items.
However, we have a vulnerability involved:
-30 + 100 = 70
[racial vulnerability + 100 = current maximum resistance]
70 - 1.5 = 68.5 ( rounded down to 68 )
[current maximum resistance - cumlative resistance from items = current resistance]
Or, are the numbers just happening to work out again?
I leave it up to other readers of the forum to figure out if the order on which items are worn or applied affect max resistance!
Given this example and Ryo's documented equation, assume "items" are a spell or equipment..Zortan wrote: -30 (natural) + 95 (item 1) + 30/2 (ring 1) + 30/4 (ring 2) = 87.5, but I'm ONLY getting 68 MAX unless I quaff a potion of cold resistance to bring me up to 90...
100 - 95 = 5
[100 - (item in question) = resistance modifier]
5 * 30% = 1.5
[resistance modifier * second layer of resistance = cumlative resistance from items]
Assuming the example stopped there, the character would have ~97% (95 + 1.5) resistance with these 2 items.
However, we have a vulnerability involved:
-30 + 100 = 70
[racial vulnerability + 100 = current maximum resistance]
70 - 1.5 = 68.5 ( rounded down to 68 )
[current maximum resistance - cumlative resistance from items = current resistance]
Or, are the numbers just happening to work out again?
I leave it up to other readers of the forum to figure out if the order on which items are worn or applied affect max resistance!
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Zortan
Ryo + Leaf,
Based on your example.. Since we're starting out with -30 resistance.. With an item that gives 95% resistance:
(100 - (-30)) * 0.95 = 123.5
So my total resistance SHOULD be:
123.5 + (-30) = 93.5.
Now if the 1st step assumed "absolute" value of original resistance:
(100 - 30) * 0.95 = 66.5
So my total resistance SHOULD be:
66.5 + (-30) = 36.5..
I tell you it's neither of those two..
Now.. if we assumed that because of racial vol. we're only starting with 70 instead of 100 being the max, and -30 current resistance:
(70 - 30) *0.95 = 38
So final resistance
38 + (-30) = 8..
Well, it's not that either.. So.. The way Crossfire behaves now about resistance, and the way both of you explained it.. In reality, with -30 cold resistance because of race, and a +95 cold resistance item, I'm getting +65 to cold, which basically looks like -30 + 95 being my resistance..Doesn't seem to look right..Especially since the next item I add is a +30 ring, which only improves my resistance by 1, or +66 resistance!!!!
Or am I totally missing something?
Based on your example.. Since we're starting out with -30 resistance.. With an item that gives 95% resistance:
(100 - (-30)) * 0.95 = 123.5
So my total resistance SHOULD be:
123.5 + (-30) = 93.5.
Now if the 1st step assumed "absolute" value of original resistance:
(100 - 30) * 0.95 = 66.5
So my total resistance SHOULD be:
66.5 + (-30) = 36.5..
I tell you it's neither of those two..
Now.. if we assumed that because of racial vol. we're only starting with 70 instead of 100 being the max, and -30 current resistance:
(70 - 30) *0.95 = 38
So final resistance
38 + (-30) = 8..
Well, it's not that either.. So.. The way Crossfire behaves now about resistance, and the way both of you explained it.. In reality, with -30 cold resistance because of race, and a +95 cold resistance item, I'm getting +65 to cold, which basically looks like -30 + 95 being my resistance..Doesn't seem to look right..Especially since the next item I add is a +30 ring, which only improves my resistance by 1, or +66 resistance!!!!
Or am I totally missing something?
Actually, i think the item gives:
resistance given by item = ( 100 - computed resistance so far ) * item's percentage
And vulnerabilities are summed up after this.
So your 95% item will give:
( 100 - 0 ) * 95 = 95
to which you add -30, for a total of 65%.
Adding another ring, 30%, will do:
first ring: ( 100 - 0 ) * 95% = 95
2nd: ( 100 - 95 ) * 30% = 1,66
Sum those 2 => 96,66
Add your -30 natural resistance => 66,66 rounded to 66.
Note that this depends on the order of the items - wearing first the 30% then the 95% would give 66,50 (still rounded to 66)
Note that I don't have the sources right now, so I may be missing things, but I'm pretty sure that's how the code is (looked at it yesterday).
resistance given by item = ( 100 - computed resistance so far ) * item's percentage
And vulnerabilities are summed up after this.
So your 95% item will give:
( 100 - 0 ) * 95 = 95
to which you add -30, for a total of 65%.
Adding another ring, 30%, will do:
first ring: ( 100 - 0 ) * 95% = 95
2nd: ( 100 - 95 ) * 30% = 1,66
Sum those 2 => 96,66
Add your -30 natural resistance => 66,66 rounded to 66.
Note that this depends on the order of the items - wearing first the 30% then the 95% would give 66,50 (still rounded to 66)
Note that I don't have the sources right now, so I may be missing things, but I'm pretty sure that's how the code is (looked at it yesterday).
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Zortan
So if I wear the +30 ring first, and then +95:
30 + 66.5 = 96.5 - 30 = 66.5
I wear +95 first and then +30
95 + 1.5 = 96.5 - 30 = 66.5..
Seems to work both ways.. Can I then ask for the logic behind that logic? How does a magic items effect weaken when combined with other items? If you think about it then, how can you treat cold and fire resistance separate, and not impose such penalty accross resistances? I mean, IF magic effect weakens when combined, then if I had +95 fire item and + 30 cold item, then I should get 95 to fire and 1.5 to cold (if put on in that order), but I now get 95 to fire and 30 to cold..
I guess what I'm trying to say is that (personal opinion) the formula for resistance is flawed.. I would propose that rather than decrease the effects of each item as you put it on, you do a straight addition and cap the max at 85 (with the exception of fireborne who get natural +100 fire)..
That way, wearing +95 +30 +30 = 125 - 30 = 95, but capped at 85... I am only saying this because I don't believe in one magic item weakening effects of another.. What I do believe is that each item provides sort of a invisible field of protection over the caster, and adding more items just adds more "layers" of protection...
Another reason for this, just like with item-power, is that what is a reason for someone to get a great item that has +95 cold when it's effects vs. say cloak of gaea against cold are the same, but cloak of gaea actually gives you other bonuses as well? I'd rather not waste my time on the +95 item (it's hard) but instead live with cloak of gaea (well it is fun solving SOME quests, not the cross-map ones or the one-way ones)?
When I found out of the existence of the +95 item, I went for it, finished the quest, got the item, only to find out that it was overall actually worse than one of my other items which I bought at a store!
..Speaking of item power, which I mentioned above, I'm still unable to use my rings of Elrond.. I mean, I can put one on, but then I cannot wear anything else worth anything.. Either the item power on the rings is too high, OR there should be a way to increase max item-power for a player, or decrease it on items (armour, rings, weapons, etc).. I actually prefer the latter because it may promote exploration looking for scrolls, books, etc, to lower item power..
..sorry for yet another rant.. I'm saddened that the choice I made when I was a young-one wasn't more educated (who else asked about the formula for resistance?).. Had I known that I could not overcome my racial flaws or chosen god weaknesses with equipment, I would have chosen totally different!
30 + 66.5 = 96.5 - 30 = 66.5
I wear +95 first and then +30
95 + 1.5 = 96.5 - 30 = 66.5..
Seems to work both ways.. Can I then ask for the logic behind that logic? How does a magic items effect weaken when combined with other items? If you think about it then, how can you treat cold and fire resistance separate, and not impose such penalty accross resistances? I mean, IF magic effect weakens when combined, then if I had +95 fire item and + 30 cold item, then I should get 95 to fire and 1.5 to cold (if put on in that order), but I now get 95 to fire and 30 to cold..
I guess what I'm trying to say is that (personal opinion) the formula for resistance is flawed.. I would propose that rather than decrease the effects of each item as you put it on, you do a straight addition and cap the max at 85 (with the exception of fireborne who get natural +100 fire)..
That way, wearing +95 +30 +30 = 125 - 30 = 95, but capped at 85... I am only saying this because I don't believe in one magic item weakening effects of another.. What I do believe is that each item provides sort of a invisible field of protection over the caster, and adding more items just adds more "layers" of protection...
Another reason for this, just like with item-power, is that what is a reason for someone to get a great item that has +95 cold when it's effects vs. say cloak of gaea against cold are the same, but cloak of gaea actually gives you other bonuses as well? I'd rather not waste my time on the +95 item (it's hard) but instead live with cloak of gaea (well it is fun solving SOME quests, not the cross-map ones or the one-way ones)?
When I found out of the existence of the +95 item, I went for it, finished the quest, got the item, only to find out that it was overall actually worse than one of my other items which I bought at a store!
..Speaking of item power, which I mentioned above, I'm still unable to use my rings of Elrond.. I mean, I can put one on, but then I cannot wear anything else worth anything.. Either the item power on the rings is too high, OR there should be a way to increase max item-power for a player, or decrease it on items (armour, rings, weapons, etc).. I actually prefer the latter because it may promote exploration looking for scrolls, books, etc, to lower item power..
..sorry for yet another rant.. I'm saddened that the choice I made when I was a young-one wasn't more educated (who else asked about the formula for resistance?).. Had I known that I could not overcome my racial flaws or chosen god weaknesses with equipment, I would have chosen totally different!
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Leaf
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Update for this discussion that was brought up in another post.
http://crossfire.real-time.com/faq/faq.html#3.2.4.1
Partial resistance uses the following formula:
resistance given by item = missing points to 100 * item's percentage
So if you have 20% resist cold, and wear a ring 50%, you get ( 100 - 20 ) * 50% = 40 points more, that is 60% cold resist.
Or, with 45% resist fire, a 60% resist fire ring would give ( 100 - 45 ) * 60% = 33, for a total of 78% fire resist.
A potion will on the other hand grants 90 or 95% total.
The only way to have immunity is thus to have straight 100%
Penalties cap your maximum resistance. Thus, if you have -30 modifier (race, item, cult, etc.) the max resistance you can obtain is 70. If it's -100, your max is 0.
http://crossfire.real-time.com/faq/faq.html#3.2.4.1
Partial resistance uses the following formula:
resistance given by item = missing points to 100 * item's percentage
So if you have 20% resist cold, and wear a ring 50%, you get ( 100 - 20 ) * 50% = 40 points more, that is 60% cold resist.
Or, with 45% resist fire, a 60% resist fire ring would give ( 100 - 45 ) * 60% = 33, for a total of 78% fire resist.
A potion will on the other hand grants 90 or 95% total.
The only way to have immunity is thus to have straight 100%
Penalties cap your maximum resistance. Thus, if you have -30 modifier (race, item, cult, etc.) the max resistance you can obtain is 70. If it's -100, your max is 0.