A school

[fargris]

I have an idea for a new map, but I am not quite sure about all the details, so I am looking for comments, criticism and insight.

The idea is to build a school (or even a university), where you can learn your trade. A bit like the training centres, you might say, but not quite. The training centres are good for simply upping your levels and trying out techniques on certain types of monsters (I think, I haven't actually been to many of them). What I am thinking of is something where you can study - ie not just go and see if you can figure out how to kill a kind of monster, but where you can learn from teachers and/or books.

So, there would be courses from which you would graduate, possibly receiving stats, levels, skills or spells; you wouldn't lose stats by dying in class, nor would you gain experience by killing.

The other part would be teachers - a high level player can become a teacher, receiving benefits from having students successfully graduating from their courses. Teachers would write study materials and teach classes. Possibly a new skill, teaching, could be introduced.

So what do you think? Ambitious enough? I expect it would be necessary to make changes to the server, but how bad would it be?

[Ryo]

Hello.


Your idea is interesting, I admit

I do wonder, though:

• - whether there are enough players to sustain such a training model
  - what "teachers" could gain they couldn't gain just by grinding maps ; what would be the benefits of teaching?
  - for students, what could they learn by going to maps, instead of just going see teachers? (opposite of previous point )

Note your proposal of course requires some server-side code. Hard to tell how much right now, would need to define exactly the aims and goals.

[fargris]

Hi Ryo,

- and thanks for your kind words :-)

Yes, I have wondered about player numbers too. The way I see it, perhaps the best way is to do the things one thinks is good and see if it will float. I think what happens in Crossfire is that people come and play, and when they reach a certain level of experience, they feel the interest fizzle out; I suppose this is the natural way of things. In the beginning killing monsters and making money is interesting, but perhaps later exploring becomes more important. But after that?

As for the benefits; I think for an old player it would be satisfying to give his/her experiences and knowledge to younger players. Like, if you've figured out just how to handle red dragons or some other skills and knowledge that are not embedded in the game. As for rewards, perhaps as a teacher you could gain things like fame (how about "The Ryo Chair of Magic" at the university?) or influence (which would probably require another server modification to implement "political influence", sorry about that)

For students it would be a way to hone their skills in a safe environment; personally I would be grateful for an opportunity to learn how to tackle the dire wolves outside Brest without dying a million times (since I'm a firborn). Perhaps there is a way, involving the right combination of cunning, planning and who knows what else?

And of course, in a university there might be researchers who could explore things beyond the known reality?

[Ryo]

Yes, I have wondered about player numbers too. The way I see it, perhaps the best way is to do the things one thinks is good and see if it will float. I think what happens in Crossfire is that people come and play, and when they reach a certain level of experience, they feel the interest fizzle out; I suppose this is the natural way of things. In the beginning killing monsters and making money is interesting, but perhaps later exploring becomes more important. But after that?

You're perfectly correct about the "do things one thinks is good"

This applies to your proposal, of course - feel free to implement it (or find someone to implement it ), and we'll see what happens.

As for the benefits; I think for an old player it would be satisfying to give his/her experiences and knowledge to younger players. Like, if you've figured out just how to handle red dragons or some other skills and knowledge that are not embedded in the game. As for rewards, perhaps as a teacher you could gain things like fame (how about "The Ryo Chair of Magic" at the university?) or influence (which would probably require another server modification to implement "political influence", sorry about that)

That can indeed be interesting, yes. Would add some non-fighting part to the game.

For students it would be a way to hone their skills in a safe environment; personally I would be grateful for an opportunity to learn how to tackle the dire wolves outside Brest without dying a million times (since I'm a firborn). Perhaps there is a way, involving the right combination of cunning, planning and who knows what else?

To be honest, right now it isn't too hard to level, even taking into account deaths. If one knows the right places, it's just a matter of time.

So giving a death-free environment to learn, I admit, sounds like something too powerful.

And of course, in a university there might be researchers who could explore things beyond the known reality?

True. But then what would they explore, and how would that translate ingame? Knowledge about things?

[fargris]

To be honest, right now it isn't too hard to level, even taking into account deaths. If one knows the right places, it's just a matter of time.

Well, I know, but I think Crossfire is - or certainly has the potential to be - a better class of game, where leveling up isn't the only thing, but more like a way to keep score.

For example, even with the graphics being a bit on the basic side (which in my view is an advantage) I can still find pleasure in simply discovering a new place, especially if it is well designed - I have been thinking about how one might design a kind of "garden" where the emphasis is on discovery, possibly combined with the gaining of knowledge, or the unfolding of an interesting tale or something.

So giving a death-free environment to learn, I admit, sounds like something too powerful.

But, perhaps not a completely death-free environment; one where death means you are back to the beginning of the course-map, but without losing stats, or only losing certain, well-defined stats or something; or where you pay to enter and you lose your money. And of course, you don't gain anything unless you pass. It could be a way to try out difficult maps to see if you are up to it yet; and a way to try out strategies. There could be books about what kinds of methods are likely to be useful for different classes of magic, so the player (rather than his character) learns.

True. But then what would they explore, and how would that translate ingame? Knowledge about things?

In the real world of science, we already know the basic rules (up to a point) and most research is a matter of trying to pin down the logical consequences of what we know and how exactly that applies in concrete cases. And as I know from my experience in IT development (more than 25 years, good grief) as a developer, you think you know what your SW does, but users still come up with ways to use it that you couldn't have imagined.

And for Crossfire to be as playable as it is, there must be a good, fairly consistent and logically complete set of basic rules; I am sure there must be logical consequences of these rules that even the best players haven't discovered yet. Plus, of course, since the developers have access to the fundamental rules of the universe, they can add new laws of reality for researchers to discover.

And what's in it for the researcher? Perhaps the process of discovery is what you are after here; after all, in real-world research, your goal may be to discover some truth or other, but what you enjoy is the quest itself. Once you've solved your problem, you are on to the next discovery.

[karl]

I have been thinking about how one might design a kind of "garden" where the emphasis is on discovery, possibly combined with the gaining of knowledge, or the unfolding of an interesting tale or something.

Since several temples have (hidden) random maps - ie mostrai's mines that are quite good for use_skill alchemy or use_skill smithery to discover and identifying objects - it might be missing such for the temple of Gaea . The Lythander's temple could additionally house an elf's embassy in a tree house or fort . Such random-map facilities for temples seem to be missing in Navar City completely.