attribute focus

[Aaron]

ok, another good idea i got from warcraft on choosing a class: focusing on an attribute.

we already kinda have this with humans:
barbarian (strength)
elf archer (dexterity)
kight (constitution)
sorcer (intelegence)
priest (wisdom)
dancing girl (charisma)

but the other races such as fireborn and dragon are kinda screwed over by this. you cant have a spellcasting dragon, or a strong elemental. pippijn is working on adding other elementals, so a strength based fireborn, or a intellegence based earth golem would be possible.

but im thinking about you choose your focus, strength, dexterity, constitution, intellegence, or wisdom (no charisma), which will give you a template, and then you throw your stat rolls. also picking a race should go before stat roles, so you can see the effects of your roll on something other than a dwarf. but then you have a template that will have +'s on the stat you want to focus in and related stats, and minuses on the opposing stat. here are some examples

barbarian (str)
str +3 dex+1 con +3 int -4 wis-2 cha -1

and dragon spellcaster (int)
str -2 dex -1 con -3 int +4 wis +2 cha +0

'any comments?

[Leaf]

I'm thinking that so many people want so many features to be available in the character creation process - that it will require a 10+ page manual and ~30mins of time to create a character!

[cavesomething]

I think the best way to handle character creation would be to do the following.

1) make stats use points, higher values cost more points

2) send race names, descriptions, stat bonuses and pictures to the client, let them show an interface to it. - client should tell the server how they are spending their points, and what race they are playing as.

3)on choosing a race and assigning points, put the player in a village, playing as a young [race] (ideally a different themed village for each race, the dwarven one being underground, the elven one in a forest etc - all using the same template)- have them wander around and be able to talk to various people there, who would explain things to them. Position a number of masters around the village, who the player would go up to and choose a class (this would lead to a number of buildings, eg a church for monk, priest, paladin and devotee, a magic guild for the magi, a watch tower with a warrior, a dark alleyway with a thief, etc). - some races would have 'missing' options, so there would be no fireborn swashbucklers or monks, and no dwarven archers, etc.

4) after choosing that, go to another area where you spend a number of 'points' on starting equipment. (having none up until that point) - options (and prices) for starting equipment would vary according to class, but would include things like stat potions, skill scrolls, basic weapons and armour, etc - here also explain the concept of locking items, and allow them to get familar with item handling without losing items (but explain this will happen later on).

5) finally start the player in the newbie house

[bencha]

... so there would be no fireborn swashbucklers or monks,...

cave*, what do you have against fireborns ? removing immunities, monk class... the monk class IS for fireborns : they need karate as their flame touch attack is only fire, so they can't even destroy an earth wall, and they're so weak that meditation is what makes them playable.

[cavesomething]

that's the point, I would have them be far harder to hit (a high ac bonus) than currently in order to balance out the things that are lost.

The fact that monk is the only class chosen for fireborns means that it is unbalanced relative to the other choices available to them. The solution to that would be to either change the monk, or make the monk unavailable to fireborn. The latter approach seems more reasonable, since monk is a more balanced choice right now for humanoid characters.

[bencha]

No, don't change the monk class, change the other ones.

Monk is the only class to have an advantage - at the cost of noweapon. Other classes, past the firsts levels, are only the char apparence they give. Fireborns, dragons and Qs have no interest in their look.

Give classes focus (as Aaron says), attunements... anything to make them attractive, but don't throw monks away because they're interesting for some people.

Fireborn are hard to play. Only fire or physical hth attack, the lowest damages, and death in front of a (couple of) chinese dragon(s). They need to rely on magic. Ok, make the monk unavailable to fireborns, but give them karate and meditation naturally.

[cavesomething]

No, don't change the monk class, change the other ones.

Monk is the only class to have an advantage - at the cost of noweapon.

I agree completely, and only want to remove monk as an option for those who classes that have no weapons to start with (dragons, fireborns and Quetzacoatls).

Other classes, past the firsts levels, are only the char apparence they give. Fireborns, dragons and Qs have no interest in their look.

Give classes focus (as Aaron says), attunements... anything to make them attractive, but don't throw monks away because they're interesting for some people.

one thing I do want to get around to at some point is an idea of aligned skills, that would gain exp at an accelerated rate, and their counterparts, skills that gain exp at a lower rate. So elves might get +10% exp everytime they got missile weapons exp, but wizards might recieve only half exp for the same exp gain event.

Fireborn are hard to play. Only fire or physical hth attack, the lowest damages, and death in front of a (couple of) chinese dragon(s). They need to rely on magic. Ok, make the monk unavailable to fireborns, but give them karate and meditation naturally.

I can see the case for meditation, but not really karate, how does a creature with no legs kick?

I'd be inclined to do something to flametouch to let it take on other attack types temporarily instead. (maybe special fuel potions, which when consumed by a fireborn would make them give off acidic flames, or poisonous smoke?)

[bencha]

... but not really karate, how does a creature with no legs kick?

Fireborns need a physical attack, 'cause you can't destroy earth walls with flame touch... many dungeon wouldn't be playable for them, even at low level (beginners 1 ...)

[cavesomething]

I'd be inclined to say they should have a level 1 pyromancy spell (burning fist?) that would do that for them, nothing powerful, but capable of hitting earth walls.

[Mith]

I don't think your argument makes much sense Cavesomething. How does a creature without hands wear stuff? And how does a glowing fireball wear rings?

Since you would still allow this, why not allow it karate?
Anyway, if you really think this should change, why not change the skill name in 'mental kicking' or 'telepathy'

I particulary like the second, it does even explain how a fireborn carries along the stuff he has.

Do not forbid a fireborn and a dragon to become monk, rather make other classes as well, classes that would only fit them.
For example: mediator:
The mediator is someone that devotes his whole life to reach into the spiritual world. Usually he just sits down on his favourite meditation location, therefore his physical strength is not much and so he's not able to wear armour or use weapons. This usually is not much of a problem, since he usually is peaceful in nature.
Nevertheless, if the anger of a mediator is awoken, he makes a dangerous enemy, able to cast powerful spells, to control his environment with mental powers alone and to release the wrath of the gods on whoever thought to find an easy prey."

I am sure there is more I am incapable to think of