Crossfire Forum

I'm not going to go into any of the back and forth that has been going on, there are a few places I would comment on things but I don't think that will help take us forward.

In the interest of going forward:
Mrbrklyn: Would your concerns be alleviated if chat was on by default and the signs changed to say chat? (I believe the code grep only found one sign so it would be useful if we go forward here if you could help us with a list of of said signs)

I really think that chat channel can solve the problem here, but your right there is going to be some confusion during the switch. While technically off topic conversation has never been allowed on shout (per the rules) it has often been more tolerated then it is now - and I'll admit that I'm more inclined to redirect a 'shouter to 'chat since chat now exits for that purpose.
I don't see this as being heavyhanded - but rather as the natural transition.

Indeed, MrBrklyn, I think that your argument is valid, but Woo's mediation and comprimise I think will work best. If chat was on by default, and not heavily controlled by DMs (Not implying anything, or am I?), It would replace shout suitably. I agree that DM's and the rule that says that "A DM's word is final" is a kinda rough, and I have seen misuse (Now no name calling or PMs that will disagree ).

BTW, IF there are going to be DM's that adhere to the rules like epoxy, is it not fair to ask for a loose DM too? Or that if there are multiple DM's on a server, they talk to themselves before handing out punishments. That would alleiveiate some to the villiany that DM's are commonly associated with (unfairly).

Corrollary to that.

Can there please be a list of characters who are dm's?

If there was a authorititive list of characters who take dm privilidges it will be easier to avoid the problems with impersonation in the future, in addition to making dm's more accountable to each other for their actions.

Well, having a list of DMs should be placed on a sign in game, in lets say, the scorn townhall. No problems in that. And there should be added into CF a DM class:
Junior DM, Senior DM. Junior can do limited DM thingies, Senior all. Then you can have the experience DM's to help (or argue with).

I dont think the problem is so much with the game, as it is with Metalforge's rules. Metalforge has for the most part changed the chat channel into a blue version of say, but more people can hear it. I like the idea of having a DM listing, or have them in the 'who, and having chat on by default.

But the best solution would be to get all of the metalforge community on IRC or CF at one time over 2-3 days to debate this. It would help immensly if the DMs had a place to hear our opinois with the comunity backing it, so theres less chance of DMs jailing others for offtopicness... (although i dont think any have done this...)

Also on Metalforge there is no chat channel awareness untill it is to late. The rest is hidden in the Message of the Day, which i really cant read every day for changes. But i was muzzeled on some heavy charges for using shout to let others know about the chat channel (of all things they thought i should have been using chat. How do you tell a group to use a channel that they dont know exsists where they wont hear you, and/or explain the rules on the channels they can listen to without flooding? (no, im not going to tell every new person who joins metalforge to explain chat vs shout since the DMs wont do anything))

sorry for the long rambling post, but MrBrklyn and this whole topic have been focusing at the wrong direction... Try talking with the metalforge staff in a public area with other users input first... i think thqat will clear up much of this problem.

Aaron wrote: Also on Metalforge there is no chat channel awareness untill it is to late. The rest is hidden in the Message of the Day, which i really cant read every day for changes. )

The chat channel info has been up there for at least a couple of weeks. The chat channel has been available for probably a month or more.

Aaron wrote: But i was muzzeled on some heavy charges for using shout to let others know about the chat channel (of all things they thought i should have been using chat.

Not true. You were asked not to use that shout channel for such matters/topics. You continued. You were warned about using the shout channel for such conversations. You continued. You were told to stop using the shout channel. You then opted to use language that is not allowed on the shout channel. You were then muzzled for the second time in three days.

Aaron wrote: How do you tell a group to use a channel that they dont know exsists where they wont hear you, and/or explain the rules on the channels they can listen to without flooding?

Why do you think or feel you have to do this?

The whole entire thread/rant was caused by one player acting like a DM when it came to rule enforcement and the other player believing they were a DM.

Aaron wrote: (no, im not going to tell every new person who joins metalforge to explain chat vs shout

Good! Don't!!

Aaron wrote: since the DMs wont do anything))

The information is there, if/when it is a problem for a player - a DM kindly points it out to the player the use of shout and chat, etc. It's when the player then turns around and refuses to cooperate that we have muzzles.

Sorry, too much troll bait here.

Why not just add a /ignore or something like that to the client to allow people to well ignore others on the chat/shout channel(s)?

Aaron wrote:I like the idea of having a DM listing, or have them in the 'who

FIY, when you do 'who, big [WIZ] commes up next to DMs name, this is the marker that makes DMs stand out from the rest.

And given that this discussion spawned from one player incorrectly assuming another player was a DM and having a personal problem with the way he was treated I would suggest everyone makes sure they know who they are really talking to.

Last time I checked 'Forging or imitating a DM's identity' was also against the rules, just a hint

bort wrote: If chat was on by default, and not heavily controlled by DMs (Not implying anything, or am I?), It would replace shout suitably.

Do ellaborate on how the chat channel is heavily controlled by DMs.. ?

bort wrote:
I agree that DM's and the rule that says that "A DM's word is final" is a kinda rough, and I have seen misuse

Only if...

Rough = decision or action that you are not in favor of.

Misuse = decisions that you are not in favor of.

bort wrote: BTW, IF there are going to be DM's that adhere to the rules like epoxy

It seems we have to, because I have found that the mere second one player is given a "break" or "leniency" and a second player does not receive similar treatment, it is abuse of power and player favoritism.

bort wrote: Or that if there are multiple DM's on a server, they talk to themselves before handing out punishments.

We already do that, and always have, through the dm party/group.

bort wrote:
That would alleiveiate some to the villiany that DM's are commonly associated with (unfairly).

Another way is to not use unfounded comments like this - even with the "creative" sentence strucutre.

bort wrote: And there should be added into CF a DM class:
Junior DM, Senior DM. Junior can do limited DM thingies, Senior all. Then you can have the experience DM's to help (or argue with).

This was tried on the old server, and failed.

Any time there was a question or problem (it seamed no matter how minor) - the two (at that time) "senior" level DM's had to deal with it because the player(s*) refused to accept the decision, action or answer of the original DM handling it.

* It was a small number of players.. but it didn't take that many to cause the concept to be abondoned.