The Stifling on Chat is killing the game

[cavesomething]

Sure, but they /do/ get to pick the dm who makes the rules..

DM posts/announce/etc. that they are looking for X players to join in a campaign/session/module/etc. of some genre/setting/world/etc. and players join.

Sticking with the D&D analogy..

Some of the player(s) in the group don't want to play D&D using the DM house rules and how the DM is running the campaign. However, they are using the DM's books, dice, miniatures, table, parent's basement ( ), beverages, food, etc. - what options do the player(s) have?

Those are all fair points, but you are missing two important things, the first is scaling. games of D&D often have 5-8 players involved, including the dm, more than that is very unusual. Metalforge at one point recently had 30 players on it. Agreeing to play with one dm is one thing, but if they were to then turn round and decide that some other person was going to stand in for them, then there might well be cause for objection to that.

On metalforge that is a requirement due to timezones, but this doesn't mean that the dms that do exist can't be known, a simple addition to the MOTD (or even just somewhere on this website), listing the dms is what I am thinking of here. (such a measure may well have stopped this entire thread from starting in the first place)

The second point concerns what type of game Crossfire is. Is it a CRPG like neverwinter nights, a japanese style RPG like final fantasy, an adventure game, a graphical rougelike, a medieval version of elite, a chess game, or a multiplayer version of gauntlet. No category quite fits, and it is currently somewhere in between all of these. This I consider to be one of the greatest strengths of the game, but it is nonetheless something that makes the D&D analogy maybe not always appropriate.

[poof]

... No category quite fits, and it is currently somewhere in between all of these. This I consider to be one of the greatest strengths of the game, but it is nonetheless something that makes the D&D analogy maybe not always appropriate.

Especially if that advances your argument and not mine, eh? =p

Having played much D&D in the past I contend that CF is much more like D&D than it is not. Therefore the D&D analogy is always appropriate. Neener. =p

[cavesomething]

Well, certainly I've never played chess in a game of D&D, maybe /during/ one, but certainly not in one.

Yes there are aspects of the game that are D&D like, but there are a great many that are not, and I don't just mean the rather... unique... ruleset the game uses for calculations.

[Aaron]

i have never played d&d but that doesnt make me a complete ... its the DM's who are arogant assholes who give make the rest look bad. I have never had problems with casper of leaf, they respect our opinions, and put up with us, and i know several others that are also respectful. its when DM's think that they are better than all the players just because they are a DM is when they piss people off. yes it is leaf's server, and he has the final say, but we are allowed to make suggestions to rule changes to things that we see as unfair, or just dont work out. and as a DM your job is to explain why it is the way it is, and to see if it it would make sense to change it, not critizize anyone who has an idea...

and i dont believe its your server, and i think you were apointed to be a DM, which can be taken away, so go off and do your job as a DM, your performance will probably determine how long you get to keep your job.

[Mith]

i know no mf-DM that act like an arrogant ... (and i know quite some of them)
Not that this 'prove' you're wrong, i think part of the DM's attitude to some player is how the player behaves/reacts on the DM in question and not to forget other players. An other part will for sure be someones track record
(though it seems that not even Bort has a personal war with DM's - notwithstanding his 'excellent' track record)
So, dont blame the DM alone, they are human too and wont like to be pissed of by some arrogant player.

[cavesomething]

i know no mf-DM that act like an arrogant ... (and i know quite some of them)

But not all of them, and until such time as you get a list of the characters who have dm powers then you /cannot/ know one way or the other.

As it is I still think the idea of a gap between dm/not a dm is divisive. Having more of the powers currently reserved for dms accessible through play (or removed altogether) would help to alleviate this.

Consider if there were a constable of scorn who could gaol players with a special cone spell, and if the players who were gaoled could choose to exile themselves instead. (outside scorn, not to return for n days.)

I would never consider playing as a dm (I'm neither power-hungry enough nor enough of a conformist to want to), however I would consider a constable like role, with a fair degree of autonomy.

However such a role would /have/ to be by mandate of the players, otherwise it isn't anything more than a junior dm situation all over again.

[Guest]

Kaitia act's like a buttinski arrogant bitchhole.

i know no mf-DM that act like an arrogant ... (and i know quite some of them)
Not that this 'prove' you're wrong, i think part of the DM's attitude to some player is how the player behaves/reacts on the DM in question and not to forget other players. An other part will for sure be someones track record
(though it seems that not even Bort has a personal war with DM's - notwithstanding his 'excellent' track record)
So, dont blame the DM alone, they are human too and wont like to be pissed of by some arrogant player.

[Cowboy]

Snipping out the for/against dms ranting...

Consider if there were a constable of scorn who could gaol players with a special cone spell, and if the players who were gaoled could choose to exile themselves instead. (outside scorn, not to return for n days.)

This sounds interesting, real live law enforcement. Maybe with the ability to give characters 'fines',
which if they don't pay, eventually add up so stores quit dealing with them, maybe when they get
to a certain point, allowing the constable to use his magic cone spell of jailing.
The more fines you had, the longer you're jailed, maybe getting out early, (once your fines remaining to serve, shrink to a certain point), and instead of serving the remaining time, you are inflicted
with an incurable curse, where all coins you pick up magically goes towards paying
your fine, or you can just sit out your entire sentence.

I don't play on servers where there are enough players for this to be any sort of issue, but it does
seem like an interesting concept.

[Aaron]

i was refering to poofs comments. and he pissed me off before mikee. is he even a dm? i dont think the players should have power to jail people, that should be left to the dm. but players should be able to suggest a suitable punishment for said player.

[poof]

i was refering to poofs comments. and he pissed me off before mikee. is he even a dm? i dont think the players should have power to jail people, that should be left to the dm. but players should be able to suggest a suitable punishment for said player.

Wow, your thought processes and sentence structure are ... amazing. =D