Crossfire Forum

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:11 pm**

cavesomething wrote:Actually, chat was my idea. *ducks*

I orignially did that when there was the previous issues with off-topic conversation on the shout channel. To my mind then, chat should have been a way to allow gratuitously off-topic conversation on the server, with shout keeping the role it had before.

I knew this was going to happen as soon as I wrote it

I understand completely the desire to create the ability to have some moderation of off topic conversation when it gets entirely ridicules, but I disagree with even ***that*** mildly.

Its a game, not a tech list. On NYLUGs mailing list they have this argument repeatedly about creating off-topic lists. And they have, thankfully, resisted.

What is off-topic for a game? Its is inherently a tool for socialization.

The first socialization newbies have been getting lately on metalforge is repanding by DMs to not use the Shout channel.

This is just wrong. There is wrong and right, and this behavior on the part of the DMs, which is a result of the shout channel rules, is just WRONG.

Ruben

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:15 pm**

Salathar wrote:
Also it would be much wiser and productive to point out the need to change Scorn signs

Code: Select all

crossfire/maps-bigworld/world $grep -i shout * | wc -l
      0

er, what signs?[/code]

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:21 pm**

Salathar wrote: I believe you are confusing shout and chat there. The fact that everyone is used to 'shout rather then 'chat should not be an excuse to stop the adoption of 'shout vs chat' divide.

Quote from the rules page: "Only Crossfire related topics or emergency/help requests should be used on the Shout channel".

Also, are you seriously proposing to make dragon in Navar listen to a ball game going on in Scorn Arena?

I'm not confusing anything. I've been playing this server more than 5 years, and I ***know*** not only how it works, but dynamics of player interactions, the result of DM activities, and even the effects of rule changes on the play of the game.

I remmber ironman, darkking, and coming and going of a dozen DMs.

As for your quote, I was assualted by the DMs yesterday discussing ***crossfire play***. And this is not the first time. This "rule" has opened up a flood of DM abused. Its a bad rule.

Ruben

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:28 pm**

Salathar wrote: There is nothing wrong with allowing people to enjoy as long as the process does not hinder the enjoyment of others, this is the reason behind existing policies.

The policy perpetrates this crime. And it does nothing to prevent it. If you don't like to here the shout channel, set listen to 0.

If your irritated by the normal behavior of common players, it is up to YOU to make a change.

If your a dragon in Navar and don't want to listen to newbies in scorn, that is YOUR problem.

That is what listen is for.

Ruben

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:32 pm**

Salathar wrote:
mrbrklyn wrote: Who is ***everyone*** to go to listen 0.
Those that do not enjoy nonsense that would no doubt spawn on the shout. And who still need to use some public means of communication for game specific issues.
mrbrklyn wrote: ***everyone*** wants to play the game normally and use the normal shout channel.
Shout is not for important server wide communication. Shout is SHOUT - Like "Shout " - the drinking song, and SHOUT like "THROW IT TO FIRST", or "HEY YOU FOX LADY", or "Throw it to me I'M OPEN I'M OPEN"

That is not a definition of "everyone". That is a definition of the supporters of prohition in the 1920's.

Ruben

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:36 pm**

mrbrklyn wrote: Here a suggestion, LEAVE it alone like it was for 5 years. And I NEVER blindly do anything, let alone force an opinion on everybody. I leave that to the current DMs

It's an open community and the principle 'stay if you like it' still holds. Last time I checked there were 20+ servers out there.
The rules are there to prevent mayhem. And if someone wants to create that kind of community they are welcome to grab the sources.

Given that both DMs and server admins do what they do voluntarely in their free time I strongly believe they have the right to do it their way. And if 'their way' is not competitive then there will not be much to do there, right?
Which is obviously not the case at the moment with crossfire being in top 10 ranking of happypenguin.org and 2nd best rpg after NetHack. Metalforge being one of the most popular public servers out there.

mrbrklyn wrote: I see this last paragraph as nothing more than an attempt to discredit the facts. Your in no position to talk for "everyone". If everyone wants this so badly then the DMs wouldn't need to keep pushing their weight around on the topic so much.

The facts are that there is change and people tend to not like it if it's mismanaged.
Chat channel IS the solution to what you are not comfortable with. And the transition from shout to chat channel IS what's happening on metalforge. Once again, constructive criticism is prefered on the process.

mrbrklyn wrote: I've had maybe 5 run ins with DMs over the last 5 years, 4 of them over the shout channel in the last 30 days.

Does this mean you've been breaking the rules?

AFAIK this is the only way to get in trouble with DMs, and you'd have to be real good at it too.

Unless there is a large information gap between a DM and the char of course. Hopefully this thread will help out on this one.

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:36 pm**

mrbrklyn wrote:
If your a dragon in Navar and don't want to listen to newbies in scorn, that is YOUR problem.

That is what listen is for.

I thought that was the point, that the game is unplayable at listen level 0 (no disease messages, it might even omit NPC speech (unsure of this one though....).

By having chat at listen level 10, then there is nothing new turned on, over the default (all kills on server are at 11), but it is something that you can chose to listen to whilst still being able to play the game if you choose not to.

Besides which it is one less letter to type

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:39 pm**

cavesomething wrote:
Salathar wrote:
Also it would be much wiser and productive to point out the need to change Scorn signs
Code: Select all
crossfire/maps-bigworld/world $grep -i shout * | wc -l
      0
er, what signs?[/code]

Better ask mrbrklyn this one :

mrbrklyn wrote: Overwise why the heck is SHOUT on by default and documented in the Scorn Center Signs and entry

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:41 pm**

Salathar wrote: It's an open community and the principle 'stay if you like it' still holds. Last time I checked there were 20+ servers out there.
The rules are there to prevent mayhem. And if someone wants to create that kind of community they are welcome to grab the sources.

No

It is NOT a open community. You can not just pick up your charactor to a new server. Their IS a community there and this rule is upsetting it.

Ruben

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:47 pm**

cavesomething wrote: I thought that was the point, that the game is unplayable at listen level 0 (no disease messages, it might even omit NPC speech (unsure of this one though....).

By having chat at listen level 10, then there is nothing new turned on, over the default (all kills on server are at 11), but it is something that you can chose to listen to whilst still being able to play the game if you choose not to.

Besides which it is one less letter to type

At no time has this game ever become unplayable becuase of shout channel noise. Its become unplayable because of politics, DM abuses, bad players, and religious preaching on the shout channel, but NEVER because of regular interactions on shout.

This rule has resulted in a beligerent and abussive behavior by the DMs on Metalforge, as a fact. Every darn newbie and nearly every vertern player has been twitched by the DMs over this rule.

By default, the players can not hear the commincations among on the board because they are all in the useless chat mode, and the shout channel has become silent. Absolutely silent.

Set the defaults to chat on and drop shout to a lower level if you want. Or just leave the darn thing alone. There was no problem it fix. Stop trying to reengineering humanity.

Ruben

Crossfire Forum

The Stifling on Chat is killing the game