Stealing skill against players?

[Katia]

I have to say it's true, we need some revenge but death is maybe too much to ask with no other options (i just couldn't think about something better the first time... was too pissed about this subject )











About the forgive command, it could be good if the victim and the DM's have the chance to perform it. But about killing the outlaw, should the outlaw flag allow _any_ player to kill him??? I think it shouldn't...





Maybe this kind of revenge could be done only by the victim itself, or by an executor he/she can name. This could be (easily?) implemented by giving the victim some kind of card of "<outlaw's_name>'s <crime> guilty proof" that would disappear once the outlaw:





1) has fallen by the hands of the holder of this card, or...





2) was forgiven (just giving the card to the outlaw could do it --notice if this card is stolen the only effect would be removing outlaw flag once but generating another one with its corresponding card into the victim's inventory so this wouldn't be a problem, except we should keep the last attempted to steal item [see point #3]-- ), or...





3) served the sentence he got in jail. I personally think this option should be giving back to the victim from 5 to 20 times what was trying to steal, depending on the level difference between thief and victim, so stealing from newbies would be very expensive for thieves. And a little note about this is the item he/she was attempting to steal should written into the same card (or some variable) in order to calculate the sentence. This kind of sentence is very productive... the victims will not want to forgive nor kill cause they have an advantage if they don't and the thief will be having a lot of work to get the required items to be released or otherwise he's dead Making a map where the sentenced should drop requested items and victim had to use it's card in orther to take the items would be useful.




other ideas? maybe for the cases of the crime beeing a pk... (i cant think of any right now)











I don't agree on the outlaw flag beeing set with pk's of ranged attacks because there's an exception... if a player is using a bow in a map and another player comes into his way (not necesarily into his viewed part of the map) it might get killed but that wasn't necesarilly intentional. (Am i right at this point?)








I would really love a skill of protection from stealing attempts, maybe something like "guarding" or so.








Thanks to you all for the support to my post and sorry... this message is too long...

[Avion]

I was thinking about that as well and this is what I figure.

If you accidentally kill someone then it is very possible you still deserve punishment because you were negligent. You may be innocent - but it isn't really possible to make that distinction and death isnt so bad a thing anyway (you just wacked someone else right?) If a DM is around then talk to them - bring the guy you killed too...

I'd vote for the flag gettiing reset if you are killed. Also DMs should be able to toggle the flag so if it is an accident you can seek justice.

As for stealing - well you are stealing... hope it was worth it.

This should be pretty simple to do IMHO, so I'm not really in favour making it too complex - The DM's should adjucate this stuff anyway - it can't really get all get programmed.

[garbled2]

This is why I suggest having the forgive command. If you accidentally kill someone, you can try to convince them to forgive you. Perhaps you need to pay them off to gain forgiveness.. whatever.

I do think outlaws should be killable by anyone. If only the target can kill an outlaw, whats to stop me from being a pest to low level players? You have become a wanted individual.. fear for your life.

I suggest that physical attack should tag you immediately with outlaw, so that if you are attacked, you can fight back instantly without fear that if you win, you get flagged.

[garbled2]

Also.. perhaps it should be more than a flag. If I'm allready flagged outlaw.. whats to stop me from going on a killing spree, and dying once? It should be a counter. I might go as far as to say an initial physical attack against a player should earn you 1 point, and subsequent killing of that player should earn you another. Kind of like degrees of criminality.. the deeper you get in, the harder it becomes for you.

If you wanted to be mean.. outlaws could drop fingers which could be cashed in for a bounty.

[hoxu]

Also.. perhaps it should be more than a flag. If I'm allready flagged outlaw.. whats to stop me from going on a killing spree, and dying once? It should be a counter.

Would that be some kind of alignment? Anyways, I agree.

I might go as far as to say an initial physical attack against a player should earn you 1 point, and subsequent killing of that player should earn you another. Kind of like degrees of criminality.. the deeper you get in, the harder it becomes for you.

Those points could also affect the time you must spend in jail if you choose to repent..

If you wanted to be mean.. outlaws could drop fingers which could be cashed in for a bounty.

Not a bad idea either..

[Ryo]

If you wanted to be mean.. outlaws could drop fingers which could be cashed in for a bounty.

In that case, only if killed by a player, not a monster/trap!
You don't want someone cashing in for an outlaw who was killed by a monster, do you?

[Katia]

I do think outlaws should be killable by anyone. If only the target can kill an outlaw, whats to stop me from being a pest to low level players? You have become a wanted individual.. fear for your life.

And this is why I thought about the card... so if you fear for your life you can give the card to any other player to let him kill the outlaw and get your revenge.

[Avion]

Here is my latest letter on this to the mailing list:

Updating my own post since there has been IRC and Forum discussion on this Outlaw thing.

These changes to the initial proposal have been suggested which I am willing to go along with...

Use a counter rather than a flag,
Failed stealing attempts against other players, attacking or killing a player who is not an outlaw will all add a point to this counter.

Getting killed *by another player* will remove a point. Other actions could also be set up to remove points.

Dm command toggle_outlaw will become of course set_outlaw...

The Who command will show something relating to level of badness.

Killing a outlaw will get you a bounty (a body part, a dropped item, or what have you.)


I also suggest the following changes -

a cap on the counter (rather low to avoid players doing too much damage trying to be the baddest fellow (which will happen)- something like ~10 levels of badness I was thinking.)

Attacking or killing a non outlaw player gives you a point ONLY WHEN you are NOT peaceful. Otherwise it is considered an accident. If you have been killed by a sneaky peaceful fellow - call a DM to ajudicate.



And before you send a scandalized reply about adding organizing PVP - consider that there is currently *no* repercussions or tracking done for Players killing Players. This would allow for such local server rules as destroying or banning players with a specific outlaw score (via script even).


On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 13:55, Todd Mitchell wrote:
I would like to do two minor changes:
>
> 1: Add a new player flag called FLAG_OUTLAW which can be set when
> players kill other players(but only players who do not have this flag
> set), when stealing attempts against other players fail or by the DM
> (toggle_outlaw command...).
> This flag can be used as a way to block certain players from certain
> areas, and if a player has been set as an outlaw it will appear on the
> who command. I am sure there are other things it could be used for as
> well.
>
> This flag will reset when you die or when it is toggled by a DM.
>
> For more background on this see these threads on the Crossfire fourm:
> http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?t=132
> http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?t=133
>

I've been watching a lot of the Sopranos lately...

[hoxu]

What about guards? Would they attack players with criminal points?

[Avion]

I want to shy away from having outlaw getting tied into monster reactions. I think that for now anyway having other players knowing of your evil nature is enough - you are only being evil to other players, you don't get any outlaw points from killing townpeople or stealing from monsters.
That does touch on something I would like to see done however - more NPCs should have something like the 'jail' treasure list in their inventories so that when you kill them guards appear to smite you. I think it would be cool to have different 'guards' for each area as well (basically a bunch more jail like treasurelists - one for each town).
For example for Scorn you have the guards, in Brest it could be Wizards that pop out, a ragtag militia of farmers in Santo Dominion, sailors in Port Joseph... This is pretty simple to do, but I would like to hear suggestions of what should be in each town...

It would also be nice to be able to add multiple treasure lists into NPC inventory so you could make them more modular (say this NPC is in Navar, runs a booth at the market and is a member of the spidercult - he gets the Navar, cult_of_spiders and merchant_lite treasure lists.)