modifying worldmap

[Mith]

I have some ideas creating a large set of maps, containing some low lvl quests and some high lvl quests, with also a few areas interesting for mid lvl characters.

Sure i want it somewhere in the world map, preferably easy to find once you know where it is. (so not a location like that of the valley of the tree sisters, which is almost unreachable, even if you know where to find!)

So i need to find a nice place... which is not as hard as i supposed it would be - the map is still almost empty.

Now i have several questions:
- can i freely modify some pats of the world map (say 2 or 4 map files)?
- can i simply claim a part of the map?
- (how) can i make that part accessible? (road, dragontransport, ship?)

I've a suggestion on 'how to find a suitable place easy'
the big world map image as you can find now on http://crossfire.real-time.com/world_map/index.html is too small. not enough details are visible.

It would be nice if there was a world map that has a small image for each map file and contains some more details and a clue for the name of the map file. for example make images that are 4 times as big as they are now.
Sure, this would give some navigation problems, maybe add links to the current map tiles to larger versions?

I've found some documentation on a tool that generates map images, but i cant remember where. If someone's willing to poste, i can give it a try - to auto generate such a map.

[Leaf]

I have some ideas creating a large set of maps, containing some low lvl quests and some high lvl quests, with also a few areas interesting for mid lvl characters.

Great!

So i need to find a nice place... which is not as hard as i supposed it would be - the map is still almost empty.

Now i have several questions:
- can i freely modify some pats of the world map (say 2 or 4 map files)?
- can i simply claim a part of the map?
- (how) can i make that part accessible? (road, dragontransport, ship?)

Since there is nothing really official on how to proceed with this, let's see how this sounds.

For the first two questions: yes. But let's rearrange the order.

First, post a "claim" to a section(s) of the world map. Be sure to include as much on the coordinates you can. (Ex: /world/world_123_114 and /world/world_123_115)
It's best to post this to the cf-maps mailing list.

http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/list ... sfire-maps

The reason for the claim is to help make sure no one else is currently working on that area.

Second, if you would like to freely modify parts of the world map - there shouldn't be to much of an issue with that - again make a claim for the mape files and see if anyone speaks up. As for what kind of changes you want to make - a summary of your plans to the cf-maps list is the appropriate place for this.

Keep in mind the altitude feature of many map tiles because that is used for the weather system and other dynamic features (if they are enabled of course.)

As for making the new maps accessible... this depends on many factors.

If it's near water, there is a chance that it's accessible by ship. But from which cities? Most like ones that are geographically nearby, unless the story behind the map would indicate otherwise.

If the map(s) are near the existing major roads - perhaps there is a trail off the road which leads to the map - assuming it's a city of some sort. There probably won't be a well conditioned and traveled road leading right to a dungeon access. Unless, the map story makes such a concept plausible!

As for Dragon transports, that's your call. Certainly there could be a dragon transport from the Dragon hangar in Stoneville. But, from other cities - if the story/theme makes it plausible, then there is probably no issue to making it available.

It would be nice if there was a world map that has a small image for each map file and contains some more details and a clue for the name of the map file. for example make images that are 4 times as big as they are now.
Sure, this would give some navigation problems, maybe add links to the current map tiles to larger versions?

Many years ago, I looked around for some sort of free/GPL/OSS map program that had features such as zoom level, compass-like navigation at various zoom levels, etc. The closest solution I found was here:

http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/

But the technical requirements were beyond me, other things came up to cause the idea to be put on hold, then forgotten.

[Mith]

Keep in mind the altitude feature of many map tiles because that is used for the weather system and other dynamic features (if they are enabled of course.)

I see. This of course raises the question: what/how does altitude has influence on the weather and other dynamic features?

Being more specific, I would either claim some valley in the huge mountainpart north of the Great East Road, or some deserted island.
I need quite some mountains and some flat grassland (for some villages and a city.
So in either case i have to alter the map, to make some grassland or to make a huge mountain

the map in the mountains has an average altitude of - say - 3000, mostly hills or rocky hills, and forrest. If i change the map tile (remove the old, add a new) the altitude information is lost.
(by the way: scorn is build on rocky mountains, it has lots of squares higher than 5000)

the island has a large pard of land with altitudes below 100, and a small mountain range (which should be greatly extended)

I dont care much which part of the world i use - for my idea a mountainrange seems fit, so maybe i just should look on the main continent, likely other idea's better fit on the few islands there are.

The problem(s) with the altitude of the map leads me to the suggestion to remove altitude from the map tiles itself and add a 'grid tile' below every map tile. the altitude then should be in the grid tile, allowing the map tile to be changed without affecting its altitude. This might have some more advantages, by linking grid tiles together, one can change one tile, and meanwhile modify nearby tiles for they are linked. This will create smooth maps (when modified)
This would especially be nice if it was possible to auto add ground tiles to a certain grid. If you want to create a new map - or modify an existing one - you just have to create/modify a grid and let it autofill with ground tiles

As for making the new maps accessible... this depends on many factors.

I see. The problem is, I remember the pain finding the valley of the tree sisters. I think creating maps that are that hard to find is just a waste of time. It is almost impossible to cross a few maps filled with mountains if you dont exactly know where to go, thats why i would opt for a side road from the great east road

It would be nice if there was a world map that has a small image for each map file and contains some more details and a clue for the name of the map file. for example make images that are 4 times as big as they are now.
Sure, this would give some navigation problems, maybe add links to the current map tiles to larger versions?

Many years ago, I looked around for some sort of free/GPL/OSS map program that had features such as zoom level, compass-like navigation at various zoom levels, etc. The closest solution I found was here:

http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/

But the technical requirements were beyond me, other things came up to cause the idea to be put on hold, then forgotten.

I think that goes far beyond my idea, but i like the 'if you do, do it good' attitude
My original idea was just to render images from the map files, as done to create the current big-world map image, with some altered parameters, to have one image for each (four? -2x2) map file(s), and having the images link to larger versions, large enough to spot&recognise buildings and such

anyway, lets have a look at the site you linked...

[Mith]

question about world map boundaries:
is it allowed to make them blocked, or should i block 'almost boundary' tiles?
(i am talking about high mountain tiles)

there is a risk of having blocked tiles at map boundary bordering not blocked tiles. In ancient wold (small world) this might cause problems - not sure though - and i wonder how big world maps are loaded/handled

a side note about the altitude-grid idea in my previous posting: it shouldnt affect weather code (and other dynamic stuff) greatly. that code just has to look at the grid, not at the ground

another question: if i change the map (id est: remove an existing tile and replace it with something else) altitude data is lost. the map editor tells me the altitude data is wrong:
"the following lines from the archtext data appears to be wrong. they do not match the type definitions."
no problem, but the editor doest support it (so i cant even 'editormanually' preserve the data except when editing everything with vi

how should i tackle this?

[Mith]

guestion about creating images from world maps: i've been playing a little with cobine.pl, but it frustrates me.

the script complains about a missing images directory, right, but where should i find it? i have no clue.
Likely the script worked fine against older versions of CF, and likely even nowadays, but i cant get it working

(i need images of worldmaps to get anything like navigation software working )

If someone can help me with a 'man-page' on combine.pl... that would be great!

[Azriel]

another question: if i change the map (id est: remove an existing tile and replace it with something else) altitude data is lost. the map editor tells me the altitude data is wrong:
"the following lines from the archtext data appears to be wrong. they do not match the type definitions."
i

how should i tackle this?

Normally, you have a box "keep above text". Just click on it instead of the other box...

[Mith]

Normally, you have a box "keep above text". Just click on it instead of the other box...

bad enough, that doesnt help to tackle the problem i describe - or tried to.

that is, you loose the data once you delete the original map tile, so if i change a tile by removing the original and inserting a new tile, the new tile wont contain any altitude data.

my statement about the editor is just an 'it cant handle this'

[Hotaru]

regarding the issue with the world-map I may help a bit.

A few days ago I had written a perl script to generate, well..
a "tactical" overview of the world map:
http://bratwurst.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/crossfire/

it is still one pixel per tile and not a "truecolor" map of the world,
but each pixel is color coded depending on what things are at that point.
So it should be easy to spot interesting areas, or in this case
uninhabitated ones..

that script does not handle multi-part objects yet, so
you only see the upper left corner of a larger building
in brown..

if you know a bit perl, it should be easy to output any other
information about each tile.
About getting the name of a tile of the worldmap, that could be
done by composing the small images with one pixel spacing
between them..

[woo]

Very nice!
Do you have any plans to develop this into something more, or was this just a learning exercise for you?

[Leaf]

Keep in mind the altitude feature of many map tiles because that is used for the weather system and other dynamic features (if they are enabled of course.)

I see. This of course raises the question: what/how does altitude has influence on the weather and other dynamic features?

As I understand it, altitude is used when determing wind patterns which then affect other factors such as storm patterns and movement, etc.

This might not be fully in place, but depending on the weather pattern - map feature such as a grassland could dry up and become a desert if it is hot or a steppe if it is cold, a dessert could start to grow vegetation eventually, etc.