Promotion vs coding.

[SuMo]

This is indeed a good question. I asked some Tibia players around me why they didn't like Crossfire. Some of the answers I got:

- Graphically poor: You may find Tibia ugly, but it is the general opinion that it is less ugly than Crossfire. Smooth moves is probably the most important point about that;

- Lack of environment interaction: Crossfire is basically limited to bash'n'crash. Tibia has a more complex economical system, and is able to interact with the game environment in a larger variety of ways;

- Interface: The interface of Crossfire is in general considered ugly, because it leaves only a small space for the game view, the rest being consumed by various stats, equipment and log windows;

- World Size: The world of Tibia seems larger than the world of Crossfire, and as such offers a longer gameplay.

The argument saying that "Crossfire is free, and as such you're free to expand it if you want" isn't a concern for most players - they're players, not coders.

Since the topic about how to promote crossfire as a game for players, there is some aspects you have to consider.
Although you're all some good coders, but as stated in the last lines of the above quote, The game itself is not the issue. It's in which platform you choose to run it that matters. Most players are plain and simple Microsoft-users, using theirs parents comp or something. That's fact and reallity.
If you're about to get somewhere you have to make a working version for the w32(winXP). I downloaded the version and there was some minor errors. Dunno what causes it, but it should be easy for you coders to fix. I think it's just a path-problem...

Later on the mapsize is not a problem. You could easily have a less amount of maps and fewer characters. This does not affect the longer gameplay nor increases the gamevalue. It's just stretches the gametime.

The big issue for players are the interface. If you only concentrate your efforts in coding a complex game without a fine tuned interface, you're stuck. The game can't promote itself without a easy and selflearning interface.

Set some time making a nice and easy interface for the game, I can help you design it but not code it. I've seen many great games go down the toilet just for this reason...

If you are to make some priorities to crossfire, I propose this order;

1: Major platform - decide which platform uses 50% of the coding resources.
2: Interface - Make one interface for all platforms. Not one for each.
3: Make a players-homepage for crossfire. Not the coders-homepage. Let players come with ideas for you and let them help you with some graphics issues. The coding of the game is not the greatest problem...

Note: As you all stated before, "everyone is a developer", you're all coding a version for each the many platforms individually. This can also be read as you're all inventing the wheel every time you upgrade the crossfire-version. This is not a good logistic. Although you like to make your own version or a version that suits your own desired OS, this cannot interfere with the majority of the players around the world. Linux/unix cannot compete with the win32(winXP)-systems in the long run. The advantage though is you're all familiar with the game and it's code. You know exactly where to look if you would like to change a parameter or value. That is good.

Slow progress: The basic fact is the many platforms make your progress slow. If you could concentrate your efforts in one major and two lesser platforms instead of 15 crosslinked platforms. You would get somewhere...
This would also make graphic-artists interessted in the game and also web-designers and quest-makers..

New features: Instead of making the game bigger, you could do some coding in making a script for questing. A easy script for the players to place small quests inside the game without hampering with the gameengine.
Example: If I as a warrior need a potion found I can go to a shop and place a order for it. Next visitor in that shop can look though the list of things needed and sell that item if they have it. This make the multiplayer-trading more sophisticated, but in a easy way. It also makes the revenues when slashing monsters less item-spamming and you have to value each item found on the maps. Today you go out slamming monsters and for each monster there's some two or three items found. Multiply this with a room of 30 orc's each leaving 3 item and you'l end up with some 90+ items. Consider then the monstergenerators...this makes another 30+ items before you clean out the rooms.
Result: There's no gain in finding a weapon/item....
Gains: The serverload will decrease as the server don't have to spend such amount recalc the location for every item on the map.

I can find many more aspects that is in conflict with each other. If you want a multiplayer game to work, you'll have to think multiplayer instead of singleplayer...

/just a player's thought....SuMo

[Lauwenmark]

Since the topic about how to promote crossfire as a game for players, there is some aspects you have to consider.
Although you're all some good coders, but as stated in the last lines of the above quote, The game itself is not the issue. It's in which platform you choose to run it that matters. Most players are plain and simple Microsoft-users, using theirs parents comp or something. That's fact and reallity.

I don't contest that reality.

If you're about to get somewhere you have to make a working version for the w32(winXP). I downloaded the version and there was some minor errors. Dunno what causes it, but it should be easy for you coders to fix. I think it's just a path-problem...

Which version of what ? Was it the client or the server ?
If it is the client you're talking about, note that two are actually available on Win32:
- The old DX client, still functional, but not supported anymore. We cannot continue work on it, since that's an independent closed-source project;
- The new GTK client port, which is quite recent and may still contain bugs.

Did you report those problems to the community ? Most players forget to do that, never realizing that coders are not omniscient beings.

Later on the mapsize is not a problem. You could easily have a less amount of maps and fewer characters. This does not affect the longer gameplay nor increases the gamevalue. It's just stretches the gametime.

I maintain it is. To reach the maximum level, you'll have to do the same quests several times. And increasing the variety of quests is an increase of the gamevalue in my eyes.

The big issue for players are the interface.

Easy to say, and definitely true. But without any player return, we can go nowhere. Players usually report that "it is ugly" or that "they don't like it". But the real questions to answer are "Why is it ugly ?" or "What should we change ?". Most players never provide ideas about this.

If you are to make some priorities to crossfire, I propose this order;

1: Major platform - decide which platform uses 50% of the coding resources.

The implicit consensus is clear - the major platform for the server are UNIX-based systems.
For the client, the situation is mixed: Win32 and UNIX are both seen as equally important.
Note that the code is quite portable - probably 90% of it can compile without any change on both Win32 and various flavours of UNIX systems. So I don't really see the point here.

2: Interface - Make one interface for all platforms. Not one for each.

This is already the case. The 'official' crossfire client, gcfclient, is available with the same interface for Win32 and X systems.

3: Make a players-homepage for crossfire.

What should we put on it ? Player's Guide ? (we do have one) Quick tour of available quests ? (we do have it) A forum to let players and developers exchange ideas ? (we do have one) Links to available clients and how to install them ? (we do have those) A mailing list devoted to general gaming questions ? (we do have one)

You need to be clearer on that point. I'm myself running short of ideas.

Note: As you all stated before, "everyone is a developer"

I don't remember having said such a thing.

you're all coding a version for each the many platforms individually.

Untrue. The server code is unique and maintained by the whole community. The gcfclient code is also unique.
Of course, some developers are specialized in a specific platform/system; they work primarily to maintain the code on the systems they have/know/appreciate. It does sound quite normal to me, as not everyone has access to Solaris or AIX for example.

Although you like to make your own version or a version that suits your own desired OS, this cannot interfere with the majority of the players around the world.

What the 'majority of players' may forget is that the Crossfire coding staff is mostly composed of UNIX programmers; historically, Crossfire was a UNIX-only game. As Win32 is seen as worth having a working client (and actually has got two), I think the 'majority of players' can get access to the game.

Linux/unix cannot compete with the win32(winXP)-systems in the long run.

Gratuitous flaming sentence. Historically untrue, too.

Slow progress: The basic fact is the many platforms make your progress slow. If you could concentrate your efforts in one major and two lesser platforms instead of 15 crosslinked platforms. You would get somewhere...

Untrue. Porting work never caused slow progresses. And what you call '15 crosslinked platforms' are mostly various UNIX flavours, which usually do not require a lot of work to be supported.

This would also make graphic-artists interessted in the game and also web-designers and quest-makers..

I don't understand the relation made between porting work (a pure coder question) and artists or map-makers.

New features: Instead of making the game bigger, you could do some coding in making a script for questing. A easy script for the players to place small quests inside the game without hampering with the gameengine.

Easy to do, harder to make in a practical way. I wait for your suggestions on that point.

Example: If I as a warrior need a potion found I can go to a shop and place a order for it. Next visitor in that shop can look though the list of things needed and sell that item if they have it. This make the multiplayer-trading more sophisticated, but in a easy way.

Current available infrastructure allow such an exchange place to be created. Want to do it ?

It also makes the revenues when slashing monsters less item-spamming and you have to value each item found on the maps. Today you go out slamming monsters and for each monster there's some two or three items found. Multiply this with a room of 30 orc's each leaving 3 item and you'l end up with some 90+ items. Consider then the monstergenerators...this makes another 30+ items before you clean out the rooms.
Result: There's no gain in finding a weapon/item....

Untrue - you'll get only 'common' items by bashing monsters so.

Gains: The serverload will decrease as the server don't have to spend such amount recalc the location for every item on the map.

It is the monsters and other moving parts that eat most of the CPU, not non-moving items. Not a lot of gain to expect in that case regarding the server load.

I can find many more aspects that is in conflict with each other. If you want a multiplayer game to work, you'll have to think multiplayer instead of singleplayer...

Again, easier to say than to do. In which way do we think 'single player' ? More importantly, how can we improve that ?

[SuMo]

oki, I understand I'm not a coder nor do I understand the complexity of the core(the engine). Although I see the parallells to gauntlet fighting beginners monsters. I agree some of the aspects I mentioned above might seem untrue and perhaps offending. If I was the coder I also would take pride in my work. I'm aware of that fact.

As for platform compability you're most likely correct and I'm wrong, since I don't know jack about the engine and todays coding. Although I have also done some gaming engine way back in history and know about some problems I experienced. One was the loss of focus. Don't take this as an accusation. I'm not saying you're out of focus, but sometimes it's good a newcomes gives some inputs about things you "don't spot" cause it's so common. For me at the moment I'm untouched by the game and can see the minor issues from a different view. I'll try to explain what I mean by this.

1: As for the GTK client for win32, I already noted One minor error that makes the gaming experience less fun. My character is gone and the background images have replaced my character pics. Different pics everytime I start the client. Since I can't upload a Image, I can't explain it more than this or is there a bugreport-file/place to upload my problems experienced?

2: The DirectX-client is as you stated discontinued. So why go that way? there's only one client working and that's GTK-version. I tried to open the CR-src version in a ascii-based texteditor, (notepad), but that *.c-files only left me with rubbish...only when I tried the WORD for windows (yuck) the file worked better, but not good... In what format is the *.c-files written in? I'd like to keep the files clear from the extra formattingsymbols MS-office puts in it's files...or should I use WORD?...

3: Regarding the maximum level achievement. The mapsize have nothing to do with that experience. If you kill a vital dragon for a quest, the quest is finished for that character. You shouldn't need to kill that particular dragon again and again only to reach the max.level. If something is "dead and buried", it stays that shape until something else revive it. Therefore the mapsize aren't the main problem. Only the amount of different quests. If you increase the mapsize you only stretch the time it takes to walk/travel to your questing goals. That is not a good way to increase gameplay/value.
As you stated, only the varitey of the quests makes the gamevalue reach a higher value. On this point I think we agree. Otherwise I'm not sure about you earlier comment regarding mapsize..

4: The interface is vital for a player. As I stated I can be of some help here. I'm not gonna say the present interface is ugly, cause it's not ugly. It's only unfocused. How? First many of the values are dynamicly positioned horisontally on the screen and have a too small area of space to show its info. I of course can only relate this to the GTK-client. Second, the many inventory listings/buttons is quite useless. There is only need for one major inventory and then a second page for the items on the ground or so. I could give you some example, but unable to upload a pic for it. This forum haven't this feature...Is there a 'players' upload somewhere?

5: Questmaking: I'm not sure of the basics in the engines coordinating system, but there must be some system to remember the different items located and different houses and so on. Let's say everything has (x,y) coordinates. Extend this matris into a small data array, where you put some of the fields open for quest events.
Example: Person A enters shop at (x12, y14, quests=0). He makes a quest by setting the flag for it. (x12, y14, quest=1). You add this quest in the questarray/database. Person B enters and also adds a quest to the database. Person C enters and look through the database and see two quests he can choose to take or leave. Person C completes both quests and the parameters are reset to (x12,y14, quest=0) and the database clears the coordinates..
The database can have parameters like (x,y,#quest(1-100), #type(1-10))
This database is dynamic, so it increases or shrinks in size as different quests are added or finished. The numbers are just for the example...
This is just a simple way to handle questing....
I'm sure you have a better solutions for it, since the infrastructure is capable of it...

6: Item-spamming and server load. Well, if the many moving monsters eats the CPU-resources, make them fewer. This aint gauntlet. It's an rpg. Also common items is somewhat annoying. If you always find the same common items, the game gets boring and plain. As a newcomer to this game I rather quickly found the no-use of all ears, foots, hearts and so on. Why bother pick them up? They'll spawn again...It's just messing with my inventory, until I learn how to change the function to: don't pick up anything. That function was the first thing I learned. With the vast amount of monsters you also lag the server and therefore risk making a twostep instead of onestep...while walking the dungeons. This way of too much monsters is 'singleplayer' thoughts.

well, I'll draw my thoughts about the interface and draw a pic for you. I'm leaving for a short holiday, so after the 24th of june I'll be gone for some two weeks, but until then ....I'm here...

[dark.schneider]

As you all stated before, "everyone is a developer"

I stated it.
In the (look like) void effont to expain the spirit of open source development.

I can better reformulate it as:
Everyone that want to contribuite can do that.
You can even make your own version of the program. This means you are free to contribuite even if someone dont' want your contribute to be integrated in his version.
Normaly every contribute is well accepted is it suits teh spirit of the game and his prouposes. Having many players consensum on the inclusion of a contribute can help to get it in.
Remember this is not closed source, this is not centralized development, this is not for money, this is not a full time work, i can go on for years here...
Best way to see it is:
1) Someone write some code, that do something
2) Someone provvide his version of this code trasformung it in a "program". It can have more/less/different functionalities/prouposes of the "original" code
3) Some other can contribute to the program and have his contributions accepted by the program mantainer. If not he can choose to make his version of the program or simply leave his contributions where they are (unsualy on his hd).

Look to cf as a code, with some funcionality. Then you have servers that use the code to run game servers with the settings they prefer. This mean every server can run his maps, his rules, his things and his anything.

There is lot more to say and I can try to explain it in my bad english (maybe my english is not so gulty), anyway I will not, maybe to bore not you too much.

Directly to you SuMo:
I really appreciate yoru posts because they give lot of discussion arguments and finaly, at least, some direct opinions.
Anyway if you really intrested in the understanding of some topics we use to reply to yoru questions and of about we talk I strongly suggest you to read some things around on how open source developemnt goes on. I give you this suggestion since I notice than in every your sentence there is a centralized thougth. I look like to me you think we have the control on what ppl does and we can constrict to do what we want.
*This is _not_ closed source*
We dont' constrict server admins to run server as we want, because it likes more ot player or such. Everyone is free to use the code as he retain more intresting.
We are not "DON'T TOUCH MY CODE!" ppl.
Those are closed source ppl, they protect their code and so, normaly, general suggestion on game managment from players are seen in a certain way. Players are considered out of the "we" so they simply (often) dont' have voice in any question regarding the development. We are not so.
Note that the "we" used upwards is for brevity. I thing that when you will comprend the "we" I'm using you will comprend much more of cf and you will give some optimum suggestion about the game.


Example:
Too much generators in maps?
Monsters drop too much common items?
... lot like those

Easy way to fix this: make your server!
Make a server without generators, and where monsters dont' drop items. It's not hard to do. Just remove some generator arches, and clean treasure list files.

Dreagons are too easy to kill?
edit dragon arch and change the hp it has.

If a thing dont' like to you, change it.
This is one of the things cf can provvide, and probably _all_ closed source games cannot.[/quote]

[SuMo]

I can better reformulate it as:
a. Everyone that want to contribuite can do that.

I can agree to a certain level:
Everyone with coding knowledge, that want to contribute, can do that.
- Since I don't know the code I'm kinda restricted to gfx, sfx and general ideas and suggestions, and that's good.
(I would only mess up the code for you lads.. )

You can even make your own version of the program. This means you are free to contribuite even if someone dont' want your contribute to be integrated in his version.
Normaly every contribute is well accepted is it suits the spirit of the game and his prouposes. Having many players consensum on the inclusion of a contribute can help to get it in.

Right on the spot! I totally agree, but...look at the point from my view;
- It would take me some 6months to at least learn the basics of C++ and parallell to that spend some 2-4month time learning the basics of the crossfire-code/engine. I don't want to wait that long just to be a dedicated fan of the game.
I can be your monstergenerator of Good/bad ideas.
I can't be another 'coder' in a very short time.
I like the idea that you are the gurus and I am the hangaround guy wishing for changes. It suits me well and give you lads perhaps some ideas and therefore feel that your work is appreciated by far more ppl than the other coders in the community. We are the two sides of the same coin.

Best way to see it is:
1) Someone write some code, that do something
2) Someone provvide his version of this code trasformung it in a "program". It can have more/less/different functionalities/prouposes of the "original" code
3) Some other can contribute to the program and have his contributions accepted by the program mantainer. If not he can choose to make his version of the program or simply leave his contributions where they are (unsualy on his hd).

the two first i can agree upon, but not the 3rd. The 3rd statement also relveals the paradox of the 'Open Source'-thought.
Yes, you have the freedom to make your own version.
Yes, it will be implemented, only if the majority agrees, otherwise '-Here's the code; -work alone. It'll be a crossfire-sidestep-version noone likes, but you...'

OpenSource is Teamwork. But up to a certain level. If you disagree, the OpenSource-theme easily split the coders into two or more groups, thus cloning the code and as a sideeffect have two independent and working versions. I can't call that progress. I call that unfocused goals. If the goals aren't set in the beginning of a version-change, the 'coders' can't visualise the program in the long run and therefore, on the way, end up in split decisions how to make the game/engine/code to be written.

Look to cf as a code, with some funcionality. Then you have servers that use the code to run game servers with the settings they prefer. This mean every server can run his maps, his rules, his things and his anything.

Yes, but that can be done in a closed source-community as well. Many of the closedSource-codes leaves many parameters opened for Mods. I can't relate this only to OpenSource. Look at the engines of HL/Quake/BF1942/etc.

There is lot more to say and I can try to explain it in my bad english (maybe my english is not so gulty), anyway I will not, maybe to bore not you too much.

I like ppl who can discuss a topic. If I only got some -symbols as a reply I'd leave in a moment. I love to discuss a thought/problem/suggestion if I can have a good reply like yours.

We are not "DON'T TOUCH MY CODE!" ppl.
Those are closed source ppl, they protect their code and so, normaly, general suggestion on game managment from players are seen in a certain way. Players are considered out of the "we" so they simply (often) dont' have voice in any question regarding the development. We are not so.

Here I also agree. The reson the players feel the way you express is that they oftenly are invited to the engine in a later stage of the codings done. Thus, not able to change the general idea of the engine. OpenSource give me that space. I can speak and leave my thought directly at your desks and knowingly you look at it with respect and then trash it. ClosedSource just trash it...

Example:
Too much generators in maps?
Monsters drop too much common items?
... lot like those

Easy way to fix this: make your server!
Make a server without generators, and where monsters dont' drop items. It's not hard to do. Just remove some generator arches, and clean treasure list files.

Dreagons are too easy to kill?
edit dragon arch and change the hp it has.

If a thing dont' like to you, change it.
This is one of the things cf can provvide, and probably _all_ closed source games cannot.

I don't wish to change things by myself. I wish to work with you not against you. Teamwork...If I change parameters for monsters or something like that. It does not comply to a change of the engine-code. It's just a serveradjustment to spice things up. The engine is still intact. But, if I change the rules in how skills work and stats behave I'm changing the core of the engine, thus not able to follow the main stream of the community.

[hoxu]

NOTE: This reply is as flammable as the original post.

Linux/unix cannot compete with the win32(winXP)-systems in the long run.

Is that so? I've got this funny feeling that you're speaking without knowing better - again.

Slow progress: The basic fact is the many platforms make your progress slow. If you could concentrate your efforts in one major and two lesser platforms instead of 15 crosslinked platforms. You would get somewhere...

Porting to different unix-based systems is trivial. Windows port has been the biggest stumbling block. Perhaps support for it should be dropped to speed up the progress?

This would also make graphic-artists interessted in the game and also web-designers and quest-makers..

I don't see the context.

New features: Instead of making the game bigger, you could do some coding in making a script for questing. A easy script for the players to place small quests inside the game without hampering with the gameengine.

You don't have to know *anything* about the game engine to make quests. And it *is* easy - at least if you ask me.

I can find many more aspects that is in conflict with each other. If you want a multiplayer game to work, you'll have to think multiplayer instead of singleplayer...

So many opinions and so little knowledge. Lovable combination indeed.

I tried to open the CR-src version in a ascii-based texteditor, (notepad), but that *.c-files only left me with rubbish...only when I tried the WORD for windows (yuck) the file worked better, but not good... In what format is the *.c-files written in? I'd like to keep the files clear from the extra formattingsymbols MS-office puts in it's files...or should I use WORD?...

That is simply because the default Windows editor can't handle text files from other systems properly (CRLF/LF/CR-problem). Isn't it surprising that all programs I use under Linux can handle Windows text files properly?

Next time do your homework before claiming anything.

[SuMo]

huh?
Making comment about a thought that's already answered???
Is that interresting news?
Why copy the thought/point written by lauwenmark and rewrite it to your own thoughts??
Did you only read my first post and then stopped reading?
Did you not read the next posts?
If you did, you'll see you're commenting old news...
------
So I leave it there. It's no point continuing down that road....
It leads to nowhere.
If you continued reading the latter msg's you'll see we're talking about something else now..you missed that....
------
ps. If you're about to start bragging about me knowing so little and you so much you're walking the wrong road. I'm here because I got smart answers to my stupid questions. You absolutely aren't the ambassador I thought you were. Being narrowminded and pic on people not knowing the playground is quite lame, don't you agree?

[hoxu]

Did you only read my first post and then stopped reading?

No. I replied the first post and part of the second. Then I stopped to hire a hitman.


/msg apt ep
/msg apt repeating
/msg apt freak

[dark.schneider]

Ok boys... calm down )
Hoxu my luv, plz be more polite
I dont' say anything to SuMo since I dont know him so I dont expect anything from him, but from you Hoxu, you are so polite normaly. I expect great things from you.

Here now I try to explain breefly to you SuMo:
About the "making your own version". Many really good project jupmed out from "different versions". Those are called forks if marked, and branchs if less marked and aimed to be re-merged later. Like in some countries after a revolution the things go much better, you must see a fork like a "small" pacific revolution. Sometimes only bad things from it and sometimes really good things from it. It just depends. You cannot say, that after proving your opinions where rigth, with a fork you don't get the 2 versions merged again (that appeneds lot of times).
I can add that, for some strange mystical reasons, programmers seems to be very wise and sensitive on the fork question, they seem to often do the rigth thing, and silly things are rare. Maybe because programmers just know how hard and how much work cost to write code.

About you coding.
I never said that contribiting = coding.
You read it in the lines because you think closed source, so you think to "contributing" as modifing the part that you are not normaly allowed to.
Here you can touch everything, so contributing is like doing anything.
Manual, pics, ideas...

About making your server.
As cf is now (and as many (if not all) open source programs) game is very customizable with really a minor effont. Yes... you have to undestand a bit of it, but that's normal for anything you want to customize.
There is some difference from engine/settings, anyway the change is so smooth that you can easily go from one to the other without really undestanding that. You start with different pic for a monster, then you add a new monster, then you add a new spell... and so on until you have changed/added so many things that the game is quite different from the original, and yes you have changed the "engine")
The real part of the engine you can't change, say maybe, is the network part or such parts but are we talking of those? I really think not.. and better not to.
Dont' say a coder to consume lesser band by not sending an image each time, he knows that! Coding is much harder, it is not just: "We can send images only one time!! What a great idea!!!" There is another part that you can get only by coding yourself or by talking to a coder on that topic for some time (time = each day during lunch for say a month).
This to say you to propose ideas and thing on what you can do like gfx, game play and such.
This tend to piss of ppl much less, since many times you may say them a thing that they allready know and maybe on witch they passed the last 3 month thinking for an efficent solution!! (instead of going out with their gf!).
I hope that this comunicates you that all your comments are well accepted, just try to not focus your attention on things that have some requirments in some fileds (like programming).
I make another example:
In cf there are some graphical interface programmers that don't retain themself dein to talk with and give suggestions to some network coders and vice versa and they are both really good coders!!!

Later Gabriele

[Firebrand]

If you want to know how to attract more users, look no further than the installer for the Windows CF client.

It doesn't mention anyplace that you need to include add the lib directory for GTK in your DOS path, which the GTK installer doesn't do by default. Result?

Even after you install GTK, the CF client can't find it!

So, of the 20% of Windows users who'll get off their butts and install GTK in the first place, you now lose the 75% who don't Google for the error message and finally find buried in some forum an oblique, indirect hint at the very simple answer to this problem.

The answer to this particular problem is either to add the default GTK lib directory for Windows (%PROGRAMFILES%\Common Files\GTK\2.0\lib) to the places where the client looks... or add that directory to the search path on the user's behalf... or better yet, bundle GTK with the installer.

But this is really a specific case of a general problem. To solve that general problem, the developers need to bite the bullet and actually have Windows computers (or at least bootable partitions) sitting around to test the binaries on... and wipe them clean with Norton Ghost before each release so that residual configuration tweaks don't fool them into thinking the *current* release works out of the box.

And, it's a copout to say "if you don't like it, let's see you fix it". I *am* helping fix it, in my own limited capacity. I am not a coder. I am an open-source-friendly end user. In other words, the first and easiest demographic to capture in the long march to open-source world domination.