Banishment kills

Website · Post by **Leaf** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:47 pm

<cross post from another thread>

Sorry people, we can post and debate on here until we are blue in the face that a spell should be weakend by this formula or this/these item(s) will allow a character to avoid being slayed.. but until some one posts or emails the cf-devel list a test scenario and results - it is unlikely any changes will be made.

Example: By reducing an undead player (Wraiths, Devourer worshippers) vulnerability to holy word from -100 to -50 and introducing a XYZ magic items (spell: pro fr/holy word, potion of holy defiance, et al) we found that on average a player was able to survive a blast for 5 seconds instead of 1 second from your typical archangel with a rod of holy word.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:33 am

OK, the +50 version of the cloak of Unholy Protection should be getting out into the wild around this time. Recepie books have been appearing for it on metalforge and someone should start wearing one any day now. I'd to hear how effective it is in the field. Lab tests were done against lvl 110 rods. Perhaps against a lvl 30 rod a +50 cloak + a couple of rings will be sufficient for a blast, so I have not been submitting a +95 cloak.

If necessary it can be added seperately as the result of a quest, as cloak of the Heretic. I already have some ideas about what the quest will be like, but before going ahead with it would like to know if it is needed and if this is a good way to go about it.

Salathar · Post by **Salathar** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:53 am

I can confirm that the cloak is getting out there, at least two people have come up with the recipes for it now.
Making or finding it is somewhat hard though, but then hey, it's a nice cloak, can be good xp too

From what I saw, I still maintain that much higher holy word resistance is needed. Tests showed that there is not much difference between a lvl 15 and a a lvl 110 rod as far as the "number of seconds you stay alive" go. So I would think even +95 is too weak, while +97 should do just about fine.

Casper: help me compile java editor, maybe I can even do the maps then

Website · Post by **Leaf** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:45 am

Note: the followup on how to compile the Java Editor was moved to it's own thread.

http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopic.php?t=665

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:04 am

OK, now that you have the editor you can do the maps. You have the detils of the quest!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:23 pm

Much late to enter this, But Imma hafta agree that rods should be made rarer yes, higher levels rarer still, cloak +95 would be great, but what would be better(for undead) would be a cloak that grants them immunity to banishment from every god except Gaea or something along that line. Because even with +95 resist you would get destroyed in a matter of seconds, and thats not right, at least if you can only get destroyed by Gaea as undead, it would be equal to anybody else getting destroyed by an opposing god.

This is just my opinion as a very angry wraith who has been banished by a pixie at 110 and died in under a second!

Salathar · Post by **Salathar** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:26 pm

Undead get banished by everyone, while the rest of the races only suffer from an enemy god, this seems to be quite fair.

What would make it very-very difficult for a pixie to banish a lvl 110+ player is if rod charges were reduced to only allow one casting of the spell with possibly increased recharge time.

As it is now, one cast of lvl 110 banishment by a player is not as deadly as full emptying of a lvl 10 rod, and the latter is way too easy to find.

Mith · Post by **Mith** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:14 pm

I fully agree with all the compainments i found in this tread. It is just rediculus even a lvl 110 can be killed in a few miliseconds with some banishment. Not even meteor swarm does that!

Sure adding a cloak that gives +99 holy word would be nice, but that doesnt address the problem itself.

I would really like to see monsters not casting 10 banishments in a second (or less) but cast them one by one. Maybe the rod should recharge slower and have less capacity?

Zephyrus wrote:As a note, I would like to ask that Banishment not be nerfed. It is fine. Banishment does grow in range as you level, but it's only a quick one-second burst. The problem is how a rod fires it. A rod of Banishment will produce a cone which can last several seconds. My natural Banishment is harmless to high level undead and is shorter than one second. My rod is not. Fix the rate of fire, but please do not nerf the spell.

combining this with the idiotic fire rate of monsters casting banishment gives a DEADLY attack.

To give undead a change agains rod bearing creatures there are made several suggestions:
1) reduce the duration of the rod banishment
2) reduce the power of the rod banishment
3) reduce the fire rate (that is: lower the capacity and increase the recharge time)
4) add good protecting equipment to the game

i would add:
5) dont allow mobs wearing heavy rods of banishment &
remove all rods of banishment > lvl 30 (50?) &
add a quest for a lvl 110 heavy rod

Sorry Leaf, i dont have the power to test all this... thats no problem... for it are just (vague) ideas we can discuss about

oh.. a last idea - maybe a bad idea for game balance - is to increase ALL players natural resistance to holy word

Mith · Post by **Mith** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:42 pm

Mith wrote: <snip>

i would add:
5) dont allow mobs wearing heavy rods of banishment &
remove all rods of banishment > lvl 30 (50?) &
add a quest for a lvl 110 heavy rod
<snip>

oh, and maybe this should apply for all rods. come on... i have several lvl 110 heavy rods of burning hands. found in a shop!
If a lucky lvl 10 player finds one (and can afford about 3000 plat) (s)he has a killing power not even a lvl 50 pyromancy player has!

ok, you all got it, i suppose. i think rods are too powerfull compared to spells/prayers. its too easy to get big power in only 7 kg...

cavesomething · Post by **cavesomething** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:15 am

Here is a random thought for you all, what if rods and wands were to reduce Pow? What I am thinking is that if you use a high level rod then there is a chance to lose 1 Pow point, the value of use magic item then would be in reducing this probability. Where the level of the rod is massively in excess of this, then it might be possible to drain multiple points. This would mean that high level rods could be used by low-level characters, but that the cost would be prohibitive. If the level of the rod were less than half the use magic item skill, the stat-loss probability could be zero.

Probable effects:
High level rods would be avoided by low-level characters.
Potions of power would be highly sought after.
Use magic item skill would be deliberatly trained, in order to reduce this penalty.

This doesn't adress what to do if Pow is 1, I am unsure whether it would be better to deny casting, or lower other stats instead, either way, it would of itself make monsters less dangerous with rods (well, except for the high-level monsters who /should/ be dangerous using rods or no), since they would either have a single cast (maybe 2) , or else 3 or 4 casts and then be stupidly slow and weak.