rods WAY to powerfull [edited]

[Mith]

... is fun... as long as the undeads are monsters!

much less fun if you are undead yourself... even lvl 110+ are killed pretty easy with low lvl banishment (i refer to other topics on this forum)
There is more. If you have a bad day, you can meet a dark elf with a lvl 50 icestorm... though a lvl 25 char should have absolutely no problems with a dark elf - even a lvl 15 shouldnt i suppose - the player will be frozen in seconds - or less.

Several suggestions are made to tackle these problem (make banishment less deadly, create a new item that gives a good banishment protection and so on)

I would add one (or two, depends on the problem you face)

the banishing problem: make undead less vunerable for banishment attacks. a resist holy word -50 is still a huge draw back, but its better to compensate with the items suggested

a more general solution for that rod-business.

Rods are overpowered compared to the spell cast (at least banishment is)
i would suggest: leave the rods as they are (lvl and so) but divide the damage dealt by a rod with some factor, 2 or 3 would be reasonable. or, to add some dynamic... divide by (round((sqrt(lvl)) /8) +1)
that way a lvl 4 rod wont be changed at all, while a lvl 110 rod ecomes what now is a lvl 47.598 rod

maybe this formula should get a little more compex, to compy to crossfire formula standards then i would like to suggest:
new lvl = int( (old lvl)^.75 + 2*(old lvl)^0.5 - 0.5)

with this formula arises the problem that low lvl rods (till around 14 i suppose) actually become more powerfull!

let me know...

by the way... i suggest this because i dont think it is wise to affect the damage dealt by a spell, though i think that rods in general, and banishment most of them, are to powerfull

EDIT:
The main target of this post/topic is NOT the banishment problem - there are many other topics about that, but the 'almighty newb with a lvl 110 rod' problem, no matter what rod he has
For i edited the post after receiving some comments online, this note might be obsolete

edit: changed title

[Leaf]

There is more. If you have a bad day, you can meet a dark elf with a lvl 50 icestorm... though a lvl 25 char should have absolutely no problems with a dark elf - even a lvl 15 shouldnt i suppose - the player will be frozen in seconds - or less.

Don't forget to turn that around.. a level 5 player could find a level 50 rod of icestorm and clean house on a group of dark elves. Good for that player, bad for the dark elves.

Several suggestions are made to tackle these problem (make banishment less deadly, create a new item that gives a good banishment protection and so on)

Weakening banishment would also greatly weaken players as well. Especially for followers of Gaea. Unless, see the example below..

<snip>

Sorry people, we can post and debate on here until we are blue in the face that a spell should be weakend by this formula or this/these item(s) will allow a character to avoid being slayed.. but until some one posts or emails the cf-devel list a test scenario and results - it is unlikely any changes will be made.

Example: By reducing an undead player (Wraiths, Devourer worshippers) vulnerability to holy word from -100 to -50 and introducing a XYZ magic items (spell: pro fr/holy word, potion of holy defiance, et al) we found that on average a player was able to survive a blast for 5 seconds instead of 1 second from your typical archangel with a rod of holy word.

[woo]

http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopi ... 65&start=1

There is a whole discussion going on there, check it out..

[Leaf]

http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopi ... 65&start=1

There is a whole discussion going on there, check it out..

That was also the thread of my cross post.


On another note, the way a monster applies a rod - they fire all available charges all at once, so you may actually get hit by 5+ blasts of the spell. So, the spells may be fine - it's how rods are used by monsters that's the problem.

I think this was mentioned on the shout channel on cf.mf.net - I can't seem to find it in the mailing list archive.

[Salathar]

On another note, the way a monster applies a rod - they fire all available charges all at once, so you may actually get hit by 5+ blasts of the spell. So, the spells may be fine - it's how rods are used by monsters that's the problem.

I think this was mentioned on the shout channel on cf.mf.net - I can't seem to find it in the mailing list archive.

This really looks like a serious issue to me, not that I mind monsters being stronger than me, but it looks like a bit of an unfair advantage...unless players get it too.

When I did my experimentation on cf.mf.net and on localhost banishment itself seemed to be quite powerfull, do only monsters get multiple casts or players too ?

[Casper]

We all do. Game treats everyone the same way. Rods have a charge and discharge as you fire them. Eventually they run out and need recharging.

A good example is the dd rod. set distance to 2 and hop about. You will make a few hops without a glitch, and then your rod will discharge and need some time to charge.

Monsters casting banishment is the same. First they fire 3-5 blasts at you. If you are undead like me you die and never find out what happens next. Else you (should?) witness that monsters stop firing as frequently (they still try, but the rod just won't work!).

In a way this is only fair since that is what human players do with rods, so why should monsters not use rods to the their full potential? It's only fair...

Slightly off-topic, why do monsters get rods of rune of marking? They have no clue how to use it. They put empty marks all over the place instead of being useful.

[Mith]

http://www.metalforge.net/cfmb/viewtopi ... 65&start=1

There is a whole discussion going on there, check it out..

well, that actually is a part of the discussion. its not just the banishing - being an elf following valriel i dont have to care much about that - its the rods in general that are over powered.

maybe it was a bad choice to use banishing as example... for many players are quite upset over the power of banishment ...

by now, having your evocation skill to lvl 56 is just worth nothing if you have a heavy rod of icestorm (lvl 78).
My point is that, 'thanks' to the power of those heavy rods skills are not powerfull enough. For i think it wont be wise to make casted spells still stronger, it is better to reduce the damage dealt by a rod.

@ Leaf:
it is not my suggestion to weaken banishment... i prefer not to do so, for it is a great weapon
Even if a lvl 5 player finds a lvl 25 rod of icestorm, he will be happy... and able to kill a Jessy's zoo filled with dark elves Sure, thats not the point.
The point is that - imho - rods deal too much damage, wether the rod is used by a player or against that player.

@Salathar
When i tried to banish a though monster (though for the monster has a fabulous hp - even > 100k) i fired multiple banishments with rod (with prayer it seems to be inpossible)
I would think... players can too

[Mith]

ok, once again: rods are WAY to powerfull.

being a lvl 112 char, one single fiend should not be able to kill me. not even with 100 rods! that is just rediculous.

he used ball lightning... and even known very dangerous ball lightning traps almost wont hurt...
this time two balls hurt that bad my golden unicorn horn wasnt charged again before i needed it!

come on... this fiend was more powerfull than even Gothwolte himself!

PLZ stop this rediculous situation and restrict rod lvls to monster lvl (as suggested some time ago).

[Guest]

Or let's give a rod of ball lightning to Gothwolte

[Casper]

OK, here's a radical solution:
Make rods weak.
ALL rods.
Do that by disallowing rods higher than level 10 or 15.
That way if you want something at high level you use a wand (which are currently very useless).