Summons

Zortan · Post by **Zortan** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:33 pm

I snuck a peak at the sourceforge respository and saw Mage Hound code there, but I still don't see it in the game.. Has anything been done about summoners?

Any work in progress? When is mage hound going to go in? I'm still trying HARD to play a pure summoner, but I only managed to get to level 25 before I died.. recovering summoning from a death is VERY tough..

I know some people find pets annoying, but summoner has been fun (and frustrating) to play with (early on).. just need more spells and maybe experience ratio being better for summoner kills..

By the way.. I noticed that as a ball of fire, with no arms or legs, my summoned pets gave me missile experience.. I'm level 12 in missile weapons! Why couldn't I get that exp. towards summoning???

I had an idea about a spell for summoners:

summon monster <name>

Basically.. you summon whatever creature <name> contains.. However.. if you're a level 5 summoner, trying to summon a level 20 creature.. chances are that:
a) spell will fizzle
b) creature will be summoned but will be aggresive towards you

Anyone?

Eebsnabber · Post by **Eebsnabber** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:22 pm

I think the summon mage-hounds is a good idea, I'm obsessed with the "summon pet monster <name>", and I look forward to seeing more monsters added on after angels... but don't you think the "summon demons" and "summon draco" are a few too many summoning commands? I only use summoning and evoking, and my keyboard is still completely used by bindings, even at only lv 7 each... maybe you should put those in with the rest of the "summon pet monster <name>". However, I hope these new ideas come into gameplay soon

! I'll be waiting...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:43 pm

only because I don't want this thread to die
other "small" sized creatures to summon
Slimecrawler
acid sphere
black pudding
rustmonster
pet of the necromancer
how about various animals?
living chaos
chaos/elemental witch
chaos knight/priest
serpentmen/ priests
baby dragons
gargoyles
pyromaniac
some of the higher level undead like demiliches/liches
there must be others that I can't think of, but even 2 tile or higher if it is possible(without too much code changes).

Zortan · Post by **Zortan** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:21 pm

By the way, since I'm play-testing magehound (unless I missed something and everyone has it)..

Umm.. this spell is fairly useless, UNLESS it's against 1 creature which does NOT cast paralyze..

The shadow hound get's paralyzed by creatures I killed when I was level 20, and you have to be level 50 to get shadow hound (the dog-looking like thing I believe is level 50?)

I know everyone is leveling summoning with charm, but I'm still prefering summoned pets, as that is the whole (main) point of a summoner..

magehound was a great idea, but that should be an alternate spell for low level summoners.. you should not have to wait to level 50 to get the best magehound, as they at that point aren't that good (move around a lot and not really attack.. I wonder what their behaviour is like?)..

Maybe make highest magehound pet level 30 (that would make more sense).. Also the delay for casting it is WAY too long for the power of the spell..

I'm still wondering how come we don't have "summon xxx" spell where you can specify xxx? I think people would need to learn some arch-types for monsters, OR a conversion list inside crossfire would convert "summon ancient red dragon" to the appropriate arch.. I think for implementation the first option would be easier, but harder on the players.. ohh well, can't win. We just need more summoning spells with more power! I hate CHEATING using charm.. I want to be a summoner with creatures, not with invisible-effect spells..

Avion · Post by **Avion** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:12 pm

The levels can be adjusted but really magehound was not a high level spell and was designed to top out around level 50 (actually jumping from level 25 to level 50 isn't so smart). Naturally adjustments can be made to the levels at which the different hounds appear. Also the shadow hounds, like any monster has strengths and weaknesses.

I wouldn't make the blanket statement that the spell is useless however. Maybe it's usless for a level 62 summoner but what about a level 15 or level 25?

Mage hound was a start of a series of topical summoning lists - if anyone has good ideas then fork them over (here or better yet on the wiki.)
The formula for making these summoning spells is right in this thread - how about some of you folks actually writing some...

The summon xxx spell is a good idea too - I would go so far as to have it possibly backfire and summon a creature that is not so friendly sometimes...

Zephyrus · Post by **Zephyrus** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:48 am

Avion wrote:The formula for making these summoning spells is right in this thread - how about some of you folks actually writing some...

Well... let's see... we need a few summons above 15. Vamps carry stuff very nicely, have decent attacktypes and statuses, but just aren't too efficient, especially when fighting creatures of fire or those immune to statuses, the latter being almost everything at higher levels.

First, let me say that vamps should be summonable whether you are 15 or 50. For those with abysmal STR, they are a big help. I refer to the earlier reference to "invoke create food <name>". We should be forever able to "invoke summon pet monster vampire".

After vampires, there should be more attack-oriented monsters. Plain physical fighters with decent stats. It would be nice to have demons and angels and stalkers and such again, but with much better stats. A small demon with the ability to hit for 100 or more damage at decent WC will work quite well.

Species oriented summons sound fun. Demons and angels are obvious choices. This time, allow for multi square summons. We all need retributioners and greater demons.

I forgot to mention, stats of a summon should increase with a player's summoning level, so that at lv 50 or so in summoning, I should be able to clear out demon TC with summons.

Summons need to work faster. A vamp takes a bit to kill a goblin. The same level is pyro would kill it instantly. There needs to eb some balance to this, and the ability to have masses of summons isn't quite it because only so many can actually fight while so many crowd together unable to do anything.

Summoners need to be able to summon special things. Perhaps things that come and hover and damage. Maybe we should make poison cloud a summon, and actually make it a cloud. Right now, no one without poison claws can do decent potion damage without rods. Poison cloud should be summoning, perhaps? (Gnarg's Poison Fog is not something I've seen. Sorry if I've accidentally made this idea too similar.) We should also be able to summon forth stuff that helps us. Perhaps summon things that cast heal. Just don't ask me how that is supposed to work.

And there goes my train of thought... right out the window.

cavesomething · Post by **cavesomething** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:28 am

If you are in the process of considering new summoning spells, then consider a 'clone' spell, a missile (bolt?) that would create a copy of what it hit, and try to summon that.

In order to make it not insanely powerful, the summoned creature would be level (monster_level+summoning_level)/2
and should not always obey (based on diffenence in summoning and monster levels).

The idea of trying to clone an evil master and succeeding only to have it turn on you does seem somewhat amusing...

Zortan · Post by **Zortan** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:41 pm

I always liked idea of stuff backfiring.. I thought that used to be a part of even weapon attack (you miss, loose ballance and stagger for couple ticks while monsters pick at your heels)

I like the idea of targeted summon spell backfiring and summoning evil copy of what you requested..

I don't like the idea of the summoned pets level being half of the caster.. Let's say that you can control up to 5 levels below you for targeted summon spell..

Also.. the idea of summoning creatures whose stats are mimicing the summoners stats would be good.. Like I said, the new magehound spell is a great idea and good to have, but level 50 magehound fights like level 25 angels.. Maybe it's summon level is too high, but then that leaves nothing after level 25 (or 50 as it stands now) for summoner to summon..

If I have -80wc, I'd like to summon a fighter-type creature with -80wc (or close to), however if I have -80wc and level 60 pyromancy, and summon a spellcaster type, its wc may be very poor, but it would have level 60 pyromancy spell level (maybe 55 as I mentioned in first paragraph)..

That would actually be useful..

Avion · Post by **Avion** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:54 pm

Like I said, the new magehound spell is a great idea and good to have, but level 50 magehound fights like level 25 angels.. Maybe it's summon level is too high, but then that leaves nothing after level 25 (or 50 as it stands now) for summoner to summon.

Ya but there are no more doggies higher than the shadowhound- perhaps I need to make a greater hell hound or how about a hound of chaos?

Zortan · Post by **Zortan** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:46 am

Magehound implies canine of some sort.. Nothing is stoping anyone from designing new arches.. I'm not crossfire-worthy to design one (I'd have balancing issues) but it'd be great to get more.

PS: I think you guys have fixed the bug where multi-square creeps were causing server crashes, and I know gorokh (I think one of those demon-types) can summon belzebub (multi square) Jessy (also), greater deamons, etc......

Maybe the list of magehound could include the shadow tiger or whatever the thing is called (it is multi square).. It phases in and out all I remember.. I also remember being level 112 and all of the sudden 111 because the *()&@#@ drained me so quickly!

Crossfire is loosly based on nethack.. why can't we MOUNT the beasts we summon? Quicker transportation riding a dragon.. hehe

Hey.. wouldn't it be cool if summoners could summon uber equipment (that dissapears after a while, but is really powerful?)... that'd be cool.. but I don't know if that would break what a summoner really is..