balance betwee magic users / fighters

[Thalon]

basically i thought features like casting delay and increased mana usage could add to gameplay and won't hurt too much. But regarding these now, compared to a brute force figther, i think the the disadvantages for magicans are way too big. Some spells are just useless now like

a) create bomb (teaches you all u need to know about casting delay by just killing you )

b) holy shock ( no need to play sorig anymore )

c) dragonbreath ( comet and even burning hands are much more effective )

d) leveling up ( or , at least, the attempt ) in summoning is just frustrating

enough for the moment, i think some players can continue this list...

Conclusion: good idea, bad result
beeing curious about what other players think, i'll add a poll for this.

[Zortan]

If the point of the delay was to slow down advancement and abuse of certain spells, it worked... However, brute force guys would need to be balanced as well.. Right now playing a spell-caster is an exercise in frustration.. The spells we used before to match wits with brute-force (such as the ones Thalon mentioned) are no longer worth using.. Create bomb is way too weak to be used in 1's.. Cast one, delay, and run like hell.. Most creatures regenerate faster than I can cast and run...

I think maybe the delay is okay, but it should scale down with level of player.. I can see why a level 20 spell caster would have tough time with bomb and dragon breath, but as he gets more experienced, the delay is decreased (along with the potency of the spell increasing)..

As far as balancing brute-types, I think maybe they need to stumble over their feet a bit more, especially when running into things that are 50 times their size..

[Avion]

As for that, adding a 'stun' to melee combat might help to slow down the brute force types...

[Leaf]

CVS check-in from earlier today:

Clean up the casting time on a bunch of archetypes - the value wasn't all that consistent.



The casting times (delay) for many spells have been modified with a general summary of:

Suggested casting time values:

5: Combat spells (cones, bolts, balls, etc - ones you cast when in danger)
10-15: Protection spells, other often cast spells. Summoning spells would fall into this category, as they are often cast when not in immediate danger.
~25: Detection spells, or other spells done when times are safe. Many ability improvement spells might fall into this category.

These are only suggestions - they more or less match when the spell will be used and usefulness. An attack spell that takes forever to cast isn't very useful. There are really two things to keep in mind - when the spell is cast, and how long the spell itself last. A long lasting spell can have a longer casting time, simply because it isn't cast that often and will last for a while (thus, smart players won't cast it in combat).

[Leaf]

As for that, adding a 'stun' to melee combat might help to slow down the brute force types...

<edit>

WOO WOO!

Found it!!

http://archives.real-time.com/rte-cross ... 00025.html

Looks like the thread is split up or out of order, refer to this link as necessary:


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... gle+Search

</edit>

I can't seem to find the thread in the list archives - I know it dated back in the mid 90's (when the mailing list was hosted at ifi.uio.no) It was a very well thought out proposal. I can recall the author's name, but not the subject or any other keywords to help with the serach.

Anyway, the proposal was aimed at reducing the hack-n-slash of the fighter types in the game by using some sort of endurance system. A fighter could only attack for so long before having to rest. Similar to Mana (spell points, grace, etc.) but for Warriors.

[Zortan]

I don't agree on the delay for summoning spells.. That is the bread and butter of a summoner.. Why is he/she penalized so much for playing his/her role? How is summoners attack spell (summoning spells) any less important than any other class attack spell? ...and yes, I often cast summoning spells when in immediate danger.. mainly to block a path so I can safely retreat..

...also.. has anyone looked at the summoned pets for summoners? Is the list of creatures increased or what? I think most any other changes are just tweaking, but looking into summoner class is more of a fix than anything else (ie: should have more priority

[Still Logwad]

I agree with zortan, summoners need to cast summons. its both their attack and defense (against physical attacks, not spells)

I think that as a mages lvl increased in a skill, they should be able to cast with less delay in that skill. I still think increasing the sp used for higher lvl skills deafeats to purpose of increased sp. the only advantage is you can cast high lvl spells, but it still takes up a good amount of sp to cast first lvl spells.

[Zortan]

What balances THAT out is at higher levels you can wear better equipment..

I now possess 2 rings of ruling (not the greatest, but..) which give me +10 to magic.. I was actually contemplating rings of adamant (which I have 4 of) vs ruling, but I balanced 2 strife and 2 ruling..

I'm a fireborne on this server (was a dragon before

..any way.. Higher level spells also mean more damage and better range.. With my +10 to magic (plus whatever I get from my amulet of magi.. I think +3?), I hardly ever notice me running out of sp.. Mostly because the 1-2 second delay in spell-casting allows me to regenerate my spell points.. DOH