Item restrictions for race an classes (topic split)

[SilverNexus]

Looking at the server data, I noticed something:

Almost a third of players can't use weapons and/or armor, just based on race selection, and perhaps more once you add in class choices.

Yet, at the same time, there seems to be a heavy focus in the game on getting better weapons and armor, which that third of players can't use. It can be frustrating (I usually play as a dragon, so I experience this firsthand, even at low levels) to find all these coolio weapons as treasure, but be unable to use them, at best handing it off to an ally, at worst selling it, where it is highly doubtful anyone could (or would, for that matter) pay for it.

I'm not saying its bad there are so many coolio weapons, but that third of people who can't use them might start to get annoyed when they find their third Dragonslayer, which they can't use, and may not want to pass off to some random guy in the street, since everyone they regularly adventure with already has one as well.

(What a thought:

• You see:
  • - Townsfolk
    • - Dragonslayer +5 (wielded)
  • - cobblestones

)

[Leaf]

Looking at the server data, I noticed something:

Almost a third of players can't use weapons and/or armor, just based on race selection, and perhaps more once you add in class choices.

Many races and classes start out unable to wield/use many weapons but have the opportunity to gain these skills.

Also, do not underestimate the power of Animate Weapon.

[SilverNexus]

I was mainly just looking at fireborn and dragon, neither of whom can use weapons (at any point, as far as I can tell), with the addition of Quetzalcoatl for unable to use armor.

I know the Quetzalcoatl gain armor the same way the dragon does, which essentially gradually replaces all that heavy, clunky armor. But I don't think Quetzalcoatl eat flesh to gain other resistances like dragons do.

Both Quetzalcoatl and dragon have the clawing skill, while the fireborn has some other proprietary attack, to make up for their inability to use weapons normally.

But, like you said, once they get a high enough level, animate weapon should do the trick. The hard part is getting there, the reward is finally being able to use all those stupid weapons you got sick of selling that are just piling up in your apartment.

I really overlooked animate weapon, since I'm using a level ten dragon alchemist (with over half its experience in alchemy), and thus can't use it yet.

[mwedel]

Note that the inability to use weapons is an intentional design decision.

Many of the races/classes which such restrictions are considered more difficult to play, although in some cases they can be easier as you don't need to worry about finding good armor and weapons.

I think the number is fairly high because there has been a general desire to come up with interesting races and classes - there are no a lot of NPC fireborns, quetzals, serpentmen, or dragons wandering about the town, but those are player race choices.

This is largely because while it would be easy to add 10 more humanoid races (goblin, orc, kobold, gnoll, and even other human variants) they would look fairly similar to the existing humanoid races that exist. So what tends to happen is the new races tend to be one that do have armor and weapon restrictions.

[SilverNexus]

Looking back at my original post, I realize the point I was trying to make is not evident.

I was trying to note how players with weapon restrictions find a lot of weapons, thinking along the lines that some added functionality outside of weapons might be needed.

Now, looking at this, I realize there already are such remedies. Weaponless races have their own proprietary attack method (they are the weapon, rather than the wielder of the weapon), as well as every reason to use the spell alchemy on any normal weapons they come across (magic weapons they might reserve for allies [maybe], especially if they can identify them).

So in a way, weaponless characters might have an advantage, rather than a disadvantage, for not having to use weapons.

Armour, on the other hand, depends on the character. Dragons, definitely remedied. Fireborn as well. Quetzalcoatl, I'm not so sure. Unless I'm mistaken, they don't have any ways to gain resistance that dragons don't already have (I think they have less, since I don't think they eat flesh like dragons), and have an intelligence penalty, making it harder to learn spells (which can give temporary armor/resistance). So they're more likely to have to rely on pricey potions to get the resistance they need.

There may, however, be something I'm overlooking that balances out the Quetzalcoatl.

[Ryo]

Well, overall player and race balance is quite hard to achieve, so it's possible things are unbalanced sometimes, yes.

Which is why we need feedback from players


Note that for instance the fireborn can't use weapon or armor and doesn't gain resistances like a dragon, but can use four rings and 2 amulets to compensate.

[SilverNexus]

Precisely why I said the fireborn are remedied. Just go through the old basement map a few times...blam! Instant resistance. The dragons can get more resistance, they just have to eat everything to get there.

I was looking more at the Quetzalcoatl, who cannot use armor, only wear one amulet and two rings (as dragons can), but also cannot gain resistances from eating flesh. They do have a fire immunity, but at the same time they have a cold vulnerability. Looking at this, Quetzalcoatl just seem to fall of of power when it comes to resistance when compared to dragons at higher levels.

[Leaf]

Quetzalcoatl can wield/use weapons though.

[SilverNexus]

A Quetzalcoatl needs to find a strong weapon or level up clawing as quickly as possible, just so they can deal enough damage to make up for a lack of resistance. Items like a mace of Slay Troll -2 (I actually came across that once, and had it equipped on a Quetzalcoatl. Now that was a useful weapon, despite being cursed) usually help. The problem is, most weapons you find early on are mediocre at best, making such a find a once-in-a-lifetime event (I don't think I've even seen really anything of Slay Troll other than that one weapon).

The Quetzalcoatl has to have weapons just to make up for the fact that karate, punching, and clawing all have physical attacktypes, so they have a good way to have nonphysical attacks other than magic. The hard part (especially early on) is finding a nonphysical weapon.

Perhaps the added challenge is good for people who like challenges, though.