Crossfire Forum

mrbrklyn wrote:

Salathar wrote:
Feature word 'shout' , try doing that on 'chat instead This is the whole point of the rules change/channel existence, remember?

Concerning, offtopic in shout, I was there when a DM asked to move the chatter to 'say or 'tell, so it WAS. Distinctly remember it being summertime too.

This doesn't help the resulting dynamics that this change brings. It doesn't make chat the default communication channel for the whole board, it doesn't encourage commradere like shout does, and it doesn't end the riegn of terror by DMs.

Ruben

* Massive increase in number of people using 'chat

Over the last month as 'chat was introduced there was a massive increase in the player awareness of the feature. 'chat was in cvs months before that but was never active on metalforge. The usage of 'chat is growing by the day.

* There is ingame functionality to toggle chat on/off

'listen 9 - dafault, does not let you see chat. 'listen 10, turns chat on. Therefore it is per persons' preference as to use it or not.

* 'chat allows offtopic chatter.

'shout did not allow offtipic chatter in the last half a year or so, therefore according to you the ability to socialise in 'chat should only server to 'encourage commradere'

* DMs together with some dedicated playes have done an amazingly good job helping others to learn how to use 'chat and advising on the rules.

* DMs together with some dedicated playes have done an amazingly good job helping others to learn how to use 'chat and advising on the rules.[/quote]


Bink ****wrong****


This sounds like the Chinese explanation of Teineman Square.

There should be no need for ***officials*** to tell the players how to talk. It was designed smartly to be straight forward with shout before it was ruined.


Ruben

Yay, more constructive criticism

mrbrklyn wrote:I've had Dms pop up in front of me when I used shout and demand I behave because I have children on the server.

Perhaps tell would have been more appropriate. But really, teleporting to a player in person to warn them about a rule violation instead of using tell to convey the same message is not an awfully huge abuse of power.

mrbrklyn wrote:I've been telported out of my map when I shouted a question

That is unusual. Unless the player is stuck on a map becasue of a map bug DMs will not usually teleport players out of a map. Or at least should not. I agree, randomly summoning players about the server is not helpful to players.

mrbrklyn wrote:and threatened through tell.

The DMs threatened you? "As in pay me 100plat or I'll see you thrown in jail"?

mrbrklyn wrote:I've had DMs pop into a dispute when I had a map and was invaded by another player, and accuse me of invading HIS map based on his complaint to a DM.

There is no easy way of tracking map owndership, and that is perhaps a fault in the server code. It is not possible to tell who entered the map first after a reset.

mrbrklyn wrote:I've seen about every variation of craziness.

You are impying that DMs are hired out of an asylum for the mentally ill people? Yes, I agree some of the examples you posted did show that there is abuse going on, such as random teleportation of players, and even threats.

mrbrklyn wrote:These are NOT trained DMs. They are just volunteers.

Correct. So are the people who made the game are volunters. This is what free and open source games are about, right?

As for the map claims incident, unless a DM is trained to run the who command every 10 seconds or so and memorise it... I see no easy solution!

mrbrklyn wrote:They ALWAYS had this freedom. They can turn it off. Without Camrader you might as well just play on your own private server. Nobody will bother you then.

Correct, but whilst before you had to turn it all off in order to achieve the effect, it is now sufficient to only turn off the chatter, and still enjoy the other useful messages. Before players have not had this fredom.

mrbrklyn wrote:

Salathar wrote:
Respect to every DM that stand for his views and does not let some individuals abuse or spoil the game. I trust that's not what you ment by 'regular play and conversation'.

Uhhhh I think so, but I didn't understand you.

DMs )as a group) and players (as a group) must have mutual respect, or nothing works. Normal play is any play which is respectful of other players (very broadly). Discussing play on the shout channel, or even C programming on the shout channel, is not a problem with normal play (unless someone complains that C programming is off topic and then a DM can easily step in then and ask to push that conversation off list).

Listen, I remember playing with my kids once this summer, 4 kids on the server and my self, and Bort was having a hillarious duel in the arena with someone - shouting all the time with the other fellow. It was hillarious and half the board joined in the conversation making fun of their silliness. The kids were in stiches and the opposing player made off with Borts finger after he ran off his mouth!

This is a CRITICLE part of the game.

This would have gotten 5 people muzzles and banned today.....

Ruben

I competely agree that this is an important factor of the game. And destroying it would probably make me leave the server or stop playing altogether. The game is there for fun, this is most important. A possible solution (maybe not a perfect one) is this new 'chat channel. My understanding is that you can have that sort of fun there.

<< A possible solution (maybe not a perfect one) is this new 'chat channel. My understanding is that you can have that sort of fun there.>>

No

You can't because you have to GO there. It is not spontaneous and it has created a reign of terror where every one needs instructions on how to shout be the officials, which includes a threat.


Ruben

mrbrklyn wrote:

poof wrote:

mrbrklyn wrote:... I avoid DMs like the plague. They are mostly young, ignorant, and incapable of rational judgement. ...

Oh good grief. This is just too silly. Talk about generalizations ... you generalize that enforcing shout and chat rules is "abusive" to all the players. Now you generalize that DMs are mostly (in brief) teenagers. Totally voids your arguments.

Nothing voids my arguements. ...

Voids 'em. This thread is a waste of bandwidth. But, you're on a rant and apparently enjoying it. I'm not inclined to "wrestle pigs in the mud".

Salathar, Casper - have fun.

mrbrklyn wrote:<< A possible solution (maybe not a perfect one) is this new 'chat channel. My understanding is that you can have that sort of fun there.>>

No

You can't because you have to GO there. It is not spontaneous and it has created a reign of terror where every one needs instructions on how to shout be the officials, which includes a threat.


Ruben

Yes, I agree that chat should be on by default. It is a good point.

mrbrklyn wrote: As a rule, I won't drag anyones name through the mud in public. However, I've had Dms pop up in front of me when I used shout and demand I behave because I have children on the server. I've been telported out of my map when I shouted a question, and threatened through tell. I've had DMs pop into a dispute when I had a map and was invaded by another player, and accuse me of invading HIS map based on his complaint to a DM. I've seen about every variation of craziness.

These are NOT trained DMs. They are just volunteers.

Let's not bring names and personal flamewar into here but what you seem to describe is the way a DM made his point. Worst thing one can do is ignore a DM warning. And perhaps making one's point in such a away is not as bad as a straight muzzle or jail.

I've had issues with some DMs in the early stages of playing cf. Most of these were resolved over time though understanding what/why was happening, DM vs player reasoning. In other cases...I just never saw that DM again in my life...

cavesomething wrote:Does anyone know what exactly is turned off in the move from listen 9 to listen 8?

I am thinking that a 'solution', such as one would exist, would be to budge shout to listen level 9, and create an announce command that is dm only, but propagates to everyone, at the same level as shout is at now.

It's not really clear/documented what sits on each listen level, there is a post somewhere about this. Had a brief look but could not spot it.

A proper solution would be to implement a channel system such as exists in some muds. With message functions accepting not listen level and color as an argument but channel name/code instead.

Salathar wrote:

cavesomething wrote:Does anyone know what exactly is turned off in the move from listen 9 to listen 8?

I am thinking that a 'solution', such as one would exist, would be to budge shout to listen level 9, and create an announce command that is dm only, but propagates to everyone, at the same level as shout is at now.

It's not really clear/documented what sits on each listen level, there is a post somewhere about this. Had a brief look but could not spot it.

A proper solution would be to implement a channel system such as exists in some muds. With message functions accepting not listen level and color as an argument but channel name/code instead.

Thst is indeed what is ideally needed instead of the current listen levels system.