Dynamic Skills

[Mith]

Granted, but the conditions that a player would manage would not be dry, and bread can often go mouldy over the course of weeks/months rather than years.

except when they store their food in their appartments - i assume the appartments not to be flooded

Yes, but most of them assume either large amount of vinegar or else a larder, which don't exist atm. Even so, after several decades, you start to question whether it should be eaten or not.

lol, this suggests to add some ways to conserve food to the game, not to have food decaying. several decades is quite some time, even in CF
Agreed, flesh decades relatively fast, but one can use grain, soybean et al. after a long, or even very long time. (Grain burried together with the pharaos is still capable of growing!)
(of course under the conditions that it is stored dry, that there are no mouses that can reach it, no fire, and so on)

As it is you write without much reference to 'real' english using a great many americanisms (whow man, for example). You don't write with an avoidence or misuse of apostrophes that oft idenitfies a francophone, and you haven't (that I have noticed) use the somewhat akward sentance structure that many german speakers are wont to. Were I to do the same (and not give useful information in the location field), then the conclusion that I was an american would seem reasonable.

However, my mode of speech (and therefore of writing), is not of that form, I use the proper spellings of words (typos excepted), and a mixture of English and Irish dialect. (try looking for my posts where I end a sentance with 'so', you should be able to find a fair few)

Let me first apologize for my little rant, i shouldn't get that personal.
It was this, combined with being accused not knowing anything about philosophy that made me a little upset. (I really can't imagine I know nothing about philosophy after almost three years of studying philosophy)

Next, i wonder should i take your comments as a compliment or rather not? Not using germanisms in fact is a compliment - for me, but being accused being an American obviously is not, especially not when this is on grounds of not using the proper (what is proper anyway) spelling and the use of many americanisms.

(what one should consider to be proper spelling depends on the language he claims to use)

(ok, this in fact might also be due to a lack of education, but its still ignorance)

Lack of education, Oh dear, guess so, I can't ever recall taking any courses in 'mith' during school or university, what a gaping hole in my education that is! </sarcasm>

It could be your topographical knowledge is decayed a little, and you take the netherlands to be some state of the USA (which is geographically false, though politically it seems rather true - bad enough) and not to be (one of) the coutry(ies) at the other side of the North Sea.
An other possibility is that your topographical knowledge is extremely good and you realise there is a place 'Netherlands' somewhere in Colorado.
Mmm, i guess my theory suffers from underdetermination.

[Mikeeusa22]

Bread, even if kept dry, will be eaten by fungus and bacteria. I know, it happens to the bagels in my house after a few days.

[cavesomething]

Granted, but the conditions that a player would manage would not be dry, and bread can often go mouldy over the course of weeks/months rather than years.

except when they store their food in their appartments - i assume the appartments not to be flooded

consider that we are talking about a game set in an era when windows were rare, and chimneys were unheard of.

Yes, but most of them assume either large amount of vinegar or else a larder, which don't exist atm. Even so, after several decades, you start to question whether it should be eaten or not.

lol, this suggests to add some ways to conserve food to the game, not to have food decaying. several decades is quite some time, even in CF
Agreed, flesh decades relatively fast, but one can use grain, soybean et al. after a long, or even very long time. (Grain burried together with the pharaos is still capable of growing!)

There are ways that 'permenent food can slowly be gotten rid of there are numerous insects that will eat corn if not stored properly. On the ground in an apartment constructed with gaps between the stones in the walls, and probably a floor that was laid unevenly probably doesn't qualify as properly. The idea of building tombs could be interesting though....

[Aaron]

yay, now we can have a whole ceromony in scorn to bury people, so we can go back later to retrieve food so we wont startve. yuck.

mikee: get started on an eqyptian area. another place you can put your devours temple.

but back to the main point, how is dynamic smithery vs normal smithery going to affect how long your food will last?

if this topic doesnt get back on track, could we have a topic split leaf?

[Casper]

Aaron, since dynamic alchemy will almost definately completely replace traditional alchemy, could you write a specification of the new alchemy now?

Having a 5 page long discussion is useful as far as new ideas go, but I think it's time now for you to chose what will make it in and what won't and say so.

If whoever implements it into the game thinks otherwise that let it be so, but having any further discussions will not change much, and if anything will delay new alchemy.

[Aaron]

i was eventually, but i was going to leave it up to whoever coded it. right now im learning C++ and GTK, so i might even try to code it. but the easiets way to go would be to decided on a table format, and someone let me know where the recipie charts are stored. ill look into them and try to create a table for the dynamic skills. and if anyone wants recipies added, post now, and ill see abuot adding them, depending on the reactions. but remember, no specific items. this is going to be stuff like 7 [weapon] = weapon++

[Aaron]

well since i still have time, heres the table format i was thinking

[# of items] [base item type] + [# of items 2] [base] + ... + [# of items 'n'] [base] = [#?] [base enchanted item]

could you end up with more than one item? maybe if your doing the 7 minerals to philosical items. but could you get two seperate results? could someone help me level a alch char on metalforge to test this? like recieving a weapon and a potion? unless theres any good reason, i think ill stick with one result, and have the base items destroyed. with the new system, i dont think ill limit it to 7 different item types as max input, but anything over 3-4ish things in the cauldron should take a rather high level alch, and the output will be either highly explosive, or highly magical. maybe having 10 or more items required to make midnight robes, or "chaos swords + 3".

and does everyone like the current table format, or is mine fine, or do you want a completely new one. i know how coding is, and want this to be easy to code, but still readable by humans.

[Aaron]

sorry for the triple post but oh well.

the alchemy table is here:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/* ... e?rev=1.21

right now it looks very complicated. and with dynamic alchemy many of those sections will be computed dynamicly, so i dont think many will be needed...

Code: Select all

this is how it is right now...

# philosophical oil
Object NONE
arch phil_oil
chance 9
diff 5
exp 1000
yield 7
skill alchemy
cauldron cauldron
ingred 7 bottle of mineral oil

i think only the arch, skill, container, and ingredients will be kept

so new table would be
# Philosical Items
arch phil
skill alchemy
cauldron cauldron
ingred 7 [salt]
alt ingred 7 [liquid] (the alt ingred is cause i dont feel like recopying all that)

the 7 [liquid] would allow for Phil Oil, and Water of the Wise, but their archs will need some adjusting to make them 'phil' the [liquid] will also allow for wine and booze to be substitued in, for things like pure wine or real mans booze... no effect except humor and easy experimenting, but maight affect stamina if its implemented. (you cant run drunk, the drunker you are, the less you can run...)

i would like to make the table in either an XML format, or something easier, like

# Philosical Items
{arch: phil,
skill: alchemy,
container: cauldron,
ingredients: 7 [salts],
alt: 7 [liquids] }

feel free to change the way the datas stored, but i would like something wasy to acess, but way to read.

i also want an alt to define an alternate recipy. while 7 [item] might make more sense, you would end up with phil daggers made in a cauldron. i think this will start off resembling the old alchemy, but start pulling away

as soon as someone OK's the data formats, ill start making a new table. and ask now for your items, so theyll get included.

[Casper]

I say use xml. That's easy enough to parse. Somewhat harder to generate, but you will only be reading formulae so it is appropriate. I am thinking of somehting along the lines of

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<formula>
  <skill>alchemy</skill>
  <caludron>cauldron</cauldron>
  <diff>5</diff>
  <exp>1000</exp>
  <msg_success>
    The contents of the cauldron start glowing.
  </mgs_success>
  <group key="msg_fail" />
  <recipe>
    <result>
      <object arch="phil" />
    </result>
    <ingredient nrof="7">salt</ingredient>
  </recipe>
  <recipe>
    <result>
      <object arch="phil" />
    </result>
    <ingredient nrof="7"><group key="name:liquid" /></ingredient>
    <msg_success>
      The liquid in the cauldron starts glowing.
    </mgs_success>
  </recipe>
</formula>

then have some group expansion tables

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<group key="msg_fail">
  <msg_fail>Large amounts of smoke leave the cauldron. You can not see anything behind the smoke, and blindly grab hold of a burning hot tool with your bare hands!</msg_fail>
  <msg_fail>The smell makes you hallucinate. Confused, you make a mistake and nearly kill yourself.</msg_fail>
</group>

<group key="name:liquid">
  <object name="water" />
  <object name="wine" />
  <object name="oil" />
</group>

Of course you will need to re-write the archetypes and make them more heriarchial. Perhaps make them xml-based too. Then you can do away with groups (a workaround) and use proper relations, where objects can have a property of being a liquid, and a propertyof being philosophical.

[Aaron]

sounds good. but that format will get fixed up a bit. and yea, archtype changing time... w00t... *sighs*

of course that can lead to all kinds of cool stuff like firebrands inheriting a fire object type, and having elemental swords, and the elemental rings actually being elements...

<object watersword>
<inherits water>
dam, etc...
</object>

or have it <object fire> on rugilli granted items? makes sure gaea users couldnt use Devours weapons and Ix users cant use Rugilli weapons...

but then you can define potions, oils, and other things as liquids, and add salts. so you have metals, woods, salts, fabric, edibles, and liquids. potions might need to have a special "finished" flag so that you couldnt make philosical potions, but then you could always have the nethack #dip command, giving your weapon a temporary attacktype of that potion. like #diping a sword in a potion of confusion would give it a confusion attacktype for 2 minutes, until the potion dries off.

ill work out a format for that table later tonight or someitme tommorow. and i think XP given will be dynamic, relating to the cost(rarety) of engredients, and number of ingriedients in and out.