Oops, not to do the mistake again and ask such questions more. It seems the crossfire community have different oppinions about the server issue and compability. Well, let's put it this way.
If a game, rich in gameplay, like the predessessor 'HACK' is to become a MMORPG there will be times when the binaries vs harware and the community vs gameplay conflict with each other. I see it positively there's a conflict, but making it a pie eating contest wont make the problems go away. Just state the facts and move on. Focus on the real problems.
As far as I can tell, there is some small issues that could be fixed in notime. Making time for the Dev's to fix the greater problems.
Small problems:
1: Homepages, at least ONE that people can understand and download the working files. That is, the Compiled versions, of all systems. If the game is planned to work within Unix, Linux and Windows enviroments let no new versions be released until all platforms are stable for the next versions.
2: Make realistic goals for the community. First the community from all platforms should encourage each other to gather more people to the game and let more people tryout the world. I'm new to this and my first thread ends up in 'harsh' language. Not good publicity or promotion to new players. As far as I can tell You're both equaly wrong and right.
3: The community and related gamefiles. It's where you can help the Dev's. You can establish a few people that is veterans or have been around for some time to write down a handbook that's easy to read. The manual/handbook should either be written for each platforms or compatible there wont be mistakes for beginners. The community are the ambassadors for the game.
4: Gaming and modelling. Instead of making more maps the community should listen to Dev's wishes. As far as I have read they need better pics for the homepage and some new pic's and icons. Here you can help out again. List the size-parameters for each specific sprite/icon/pic so creative people can upload them and the homepage can show them to the community/Dev for voting and so on.
well, that my thought as a newbie to this, but veteran in gaming circles.
New player or slayer?
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mathwizard
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I never really followed a discussion about CF on M$-systems because I am running Linux. Maybe you should take a look at the discussion "Crossfire 1.5.0 released" at the CF-board at www.viksten.com.
HTH
HTH
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards
for they are subtle and quick to anger.
for they are subtle and quick to anger.
'ey.. what's wrong with http://crossfire.real-time.com/?SuMo wrote:1: Homepages, at least ONE that people can understand and download the working files. That is, the Compiled versions, of all systems. If the game is planned to work within Unix, Linux and Windows enviroments let no new versions be released until all platforms are stable for the next versions.
Actually, I'm more on the left side. Thus, you must be wrong. But I agree with the.. uhh.. another thing.SuMo wrote:2: Make realistic goals for the community. First the community from all platforms should encourage each other to gather more people to the game and let more people tryout the world. I'm new to this and my first thread ends up in 'harsh' language. Not good publicity or promotion to new players. As far as I can tell You're both equaly wrong and right.
Anyways, some links worth checking:
http://www.theperlguru.com/crossfire/
http://www.viksten.com/bazooka/index.ph ... =875022742
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Lauwenmark
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Your question was valuable. However, reactions of some people here weren't. I strongly suggest members to think twice before starting holy wars. This is not the purpose of this forum.SuMo wrote:Oops, not to do the mistake again and ask such questions more. It seems the crossfire community have different oppinions about the server issue and compability. Well, let's put it this way.
Now I'll try to answer you in a serious way - let's just hope such behaviour will not disgust you right away from Crossfire.
This is somewhat true. The difficulty is that since Crossfire runs on a wide panel of platforms, it is difficult to supply an appropriate binary version for every one of them. The main Crossfire website supplies the source code distribution as well as an RPM binary package. Some other binary formats are also maintained on an independent basis, like the Debian packages.As far as I can tell, there is some small issues that could be fixed in notime. Making time for the Dev's to fix the greater problems.
Small problems:
1: Homepages, at least ONE that people can understand and download the working files. That is, the Compiled versions, of all systems. If the game is planned to work within Unix, Linux and Windows enviroments let no new versions be released until all platforms are stable for the next versions.
There is currently no Windows binary distribution of the Crossfire server supplied - Win32 support isn't followed as well as the *nix support, since nearly every programmer on the project is working and playing under a *nix system. This may change if some coder more focused on Windows joins - I don't think there's a 'religious opposition' to that.
Client binaries for Windows are available on the website. The installation isn't automated as it is usually the case for most Windows programs, though. That's something that could be improved in the future.
As for waiting the stability on all platforms, we just try to get 'enough stability on major platforms'. For the Crossfire Server, Windows isn't currently seen as a 'major platform'. Since we don't get a lot of infos from Windows Beta-testers, it is difficult to determine when changes are breaking things.
Definitely true. I should also say that such harsh language was quite uncommon until now. I just hope it will stay uncommon in the future.2: Make realistic goals for the community. First the community from all platforms should encourage each other to gather more people to the game and let more people tryout the world. I'm new to this and my first thread ends up in 'harsh' language. Not good publicity or promotion to new players. As far as I can tell You're both equaly wrong and right.
As for attracting new players, it is difficult to determine what they exactly want in the game. What do they like ? What do they dislike ? Why don't they play Crossfire ? Gathering on a personal level has its limits, too, although it is indeed a good start. I 'trapped' some players myself so
This is mostly what happens now. However, a large part of what you'd call "the community" is also part of the developers' staff.3: The community and related gamefiles. It's where you can help the Dev's. You can establish a few people that is veterans or have been around for some time to write down a handbook that's easy to read. The manual/handbook should either be written for each platforms or compatible there wont be mistakes for beginners. The community are the ambassadors for the game.
This Forum goes in the way of improving relations between developers and players and try to increase the cooperation. Note that because of the 'open' status of Crossfire, you're free to propose things (like a new manual) or to ask people of the devel team to help you on that task. You don't have (and shouldn't) wait for the Dev Team to propose it themselves.
What about a picture contest ?4: Gaming and modelling. Instead of making more maps the community should listen to Dev's wishes. As far as I have read they need better pics for the homepage and some new pic's and icons. Here you can help out again. List the size-parameters for each specific sprite/icon/pic so creative people can upload them and the homepage can show them to the community/Dev for voting and so on.
The problem is that most people currently enjoying Crossfire are coders or 'simple' players. There's no 'true' GFX-specialist available (yet). We do whataver we can to improve GFX, but it is easier to write the behaviour of a new dragon than to actually draw and anime it
Those comments are definitely welcome. We need more game veterans' advices for Crossfire.well, that my thought as a newbie to this, but veteran in gaming circles.
Au Nom de Son Auguste Majesté,
Lauwenmark Kadensanni Hento Akkendrittae
Général en Chef de l'Armée de l'Ouest.
Lauwenmark Kadensanni Hento Akkendrittae
Général en Chef de l'Armée de l'Ouest.
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dark.schneider
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Ehm 
...SuMo (but not only you naturaly)
Just so every one get it (most allready done) the flame was a fake
We was just all joking :PP
We all spend much time on irc every day and meet every day, we all sadly/happy know weak/strong points of cf
Anywa just to update you to the current cf state, I answer your points.
1) Actualy more than often open source projects dont' have a real developer group and comunity distiction, they are just the same. In closed source this is often different since comunity can only provvide things that developers (that have access to source) can add. Here everyone is free to add what he wants, he just have to ask if it suits the game. If not he can just provvide his own version of the program, we are very open to this. This thipe of philosopy just cut out the possibility you say of "realasing all version at once" this is just *very* lame imho. Everyone should be able to get his version when he want. And I can add that "relasing" is a non sense in many open source projects since one can just get the CVS version updated to 5 mins ago Here we can talk (as everyone does) of packaging the source and relasing in the sense of version numbering, but this is just another point.
So no great sense in "making simultaneous relases for all platforums" everyone must just download his latest packaged version or get the source (tar.gz or CVS)and make it compile (maybe then providing the package to others).
2) Same as above we are open source philosopy, we do not make promotions or advertising company, we want use our software because it is good enougth to be used. The thing we are interested is visibility, that mean the software is easly avaiable to one that want to download it and that he can find descriptions and comments about it easly.
3) The handbook is allready avaiable, as a survival guide too. Anyway for this proupose our great Avion have just set up a new shining wiki page, so we all can easly contribuite.
Here is the url:
http://crossfire.freezope.org/
Note that there are other things in that site.
4) Actualy everyone that make an image, can simply mail it to cf-devel mailing list and get a lightining fast bouch of opinions.
About parameters you can easly get them from the source, just looking at other images. Irc is another fast way to get optinions on a pic you make, and here forum is another too.
About maps, yes theya re neded, if you notice cf is just switched to a HUGE new map, that make cf one of the games wiht the biggest map. But it is now greatly empty, since the "inner" maps are the same as before. So just now I greatly think we can stay witht he graphic and get some new maps and quests to at least fill the biggest holes. If you interested in such topics I greatly suggest you subscribing to the mailing list (you can easly get that from sf.net project homape), there LOT of discussion have place.
Again remember of the great cumnubium of comunity and developers in open source projects, we are mostly the same. There is no closure to "ppl that are not developers" everyone is a developer, just before you can edit the official source and commit it to the main repository you must prove you trusted, just for security reasons. But again if you have a patch for the code, a submission of it tho the developer mailing lsit will probably have it immediately integrated (if the patch is good naturaly).
Ok long enougth post
Hope not to *really* scary you this time, the rest was all just jokes
Anyway I say you WELCOME IN))
Hope you will enjoy cf and us.. and stay a lot
(yeah.. there is the possibility that you become cf addict too, like us).
If you intrested in developing (as it look like) I suggest you come to irc and ask a bit if there is something specific you can do, or just you can do what spring in your mind or what you think cf miss
see you
...SuMo (but not only you naturaly)Just so every one get it (most allready done) the flame was a fake
We was just all joking :PP
We all spend much time on irc every day and meet every day, we all sadly/happy know weak/strong points of cf
Anywa just to update you to the current cf state, I answer your points.
1) Actualy more than often open source projects dont' have a real developer group and comunity distiction, they are just the same. In closed source this is often different since comunity can only provvide things that developers (that have access to source) can add. Here everyone is free to add what he wants, he just have to ask if it suits the game. If not he can just provvide his own version of the program, we are very open to this. This thipe of philosopy just cut out the possibility you say of "realasing all version at once" this is just *very* lame imho. Everyone should be able to get his version when he want. And I can add that "relasing" is a non sense in many open source projects since one can just get the CVS version updated to 5 mins ago
Here we can talk (as everyone does) of packaging the source and relasing in the sense of version numbering, but this is just another point.So no great sense in "making simultaneous relases for all platforums" everyone must just download his latest packaged version or get the source (tar.gz or CVS)and make it compile (maybe then providing the package to others).
2) Same as above we are open source philosopy, we do not make promotions or advertising company, we want use our software because it is good enougth to be used. The thing we are interested is visibility, that mean the software is easly avaiable to one that want to download it and that he can find descriptions and comments about it easly.
3) The handbook is allready avaiable, as a survival guide too. Anyway for this proupose our great Avion have just set up a new shining wiki page, so we all can easly contribuite.
Here is the url:
http://crossfire.freezope.org/
Note that there are other things in that site.
4) Actualy everyone that make an image, can simply mail it to cf-devel mailing list and get a lightining fast bouch of opinions.
About parameters you can easly get them from the source, just looking at other images. Irc is another fast way to get optinions on a pic you make, and here forum is another too.
About maps, yes theya re neded, if you notice cf is just switched to a HUGE new map, that make cf one of the games wiht the biggest map. But it is now greatly empty, since the "inner" maps are the same as before. So just now I greatly think we can stay witht he graphic and get some new maps and quests to at least fill the biggest holes. If you interested in such topics I greatly suggest you subscribing to the mailing list (you can easly get that from sf.net project homape), there LOT of discussion have place.
Again remember of the great cumnubium of comunity and developers in open source projects, we are mostly the same. There is no closure to "ppl that are not developers" everyone is a developer, just before you can edit the official source and commit it to the main repository you must prove you trusted, just for security reasons. But again if you have a patch for the code, a submission of it tho the developer mailing lsit will probably have it immediately integrated (if the patch is good naturaly).
Ok long enougth post
Hope not to *really* scary you this time, the rest was all just jokes
Anyway I say you WELCOME IN
))Hope you will enjoy cf and us.. and stay a lot
(yeah.. there is the possibility that you become cf addict too, like us).
If you intrested in developing (as it look like) I suggest you come to irc and ask a bit if there is something specific you can do, or just you can do what spring in your mind or what you think cf miss
see you
Thanks for the best answers!
This makes me understand the world around and above the code-level. As you stated you are mostly devs, but how many are promoters?
How many actually work to bring out the news about the game?
A homepage is good if people know where to look for it.
Many of the pages a under construction or lack vital files.
The windows Client do have a working installer.
Although there's no Windows server version.
(the one that is for download is corrupt)
As many of you don't like windows, the majority of the gamers uses windows as their first platform. Only more dedicated users och programmers realise the drawback windows actually have.
I agree open source is good up to a level of progress. Too many options in versions make the game unclear or hard to follow up. If you need a new version of the game the open source let you program a version for yourself. Problem or not, only the experienced can handle open source versions. As you stated before, most people can't handle compilers properly nor fix a version suitable for themselves.
Most of you are testers and devs as it should be, but at some time the complexity of the game outgrowths the open source. Look at linux, such open source that is...in early days there was many versions, but now only three or four versions are left.
At some time you have to straighten up the thinktank and release a version for the gaming community (me and other). I'm not a hacker or programmer but I can do some promoting and set up a homepage with the proper files and list all you Dev's and so on.
I also can listen with my other forum-communites about making some pics to this game, but I haven't seen any sizes for them yet. List the sizes and I hunt the gfx for you.
( I have some 2-3 potential 3D-artists and some 1-2 2D artists, but cant promisse anything yet)
This makes me understand the world around and above the code-level. As you stated you are mostly devs, but how many are promoters?
How many actually work to bring out the news about the game?
A homepage is good if people know where to look for it.
Many of the pages a under construction or lack vital files.
The windows Client do have a working installer.
Although there's no Windows server version.
(the one that is for download is corrupt)
As many of you don't like windows, the majority of the gamers uses windows as their first platform. Only more dedicated users och programmers realise the drawback windows actually have.
I agree open source is good up to a level of progress. Too many options in versions make the game unclear or hard to follow up. If you need a new version of the game the open source let you program a version for yourself. Problem or not, only the experienced can handle open source versions. As you stated before, most people can't handle compilers properly nor fix a version suitable for themselves.
Most of you are testers and devs as it should be, but at some time the complexity of the game outgrowths the open source. Look at linux, such open source that is...in early days there was many versions, but now only three or four versions are left.
At some time you have to straighten up the thinktank and release a version for the gaming community (me and other). I'm not a hacker or programmer but I can do some promoting and set up a homepage with the proper files and list all you Dev's and so on.
I also can listen with my other forum-communites about making some pics to this game, but I haven't seen any sizes for them yet. List the sizes and I hunt the gfx for you.
( I have some 2-3 potential 3D-artists and some 1-2 2D artists, but cant promisse anything yet)
Sorry to bump and old (and probably unwanted) subject but I have my little questions before launching myself into CC.
I am an "old" coder from Mirage Online. MO is vb driven. I released my personal release a long time ago and dropped out from it as it's a bit too basic *yet*.
I'm VERY far from beeing a good coder. VERY far. I have the basic knowledge of C/++ and vb but I wouldnt call myself a good coder.
But I see that the CC community is MUCH bigger and "helpfull" then the MO community. Specially with all these manuals around.
I'd really love to start coding for CC, from the coding side to the gfx side.
So here are my questions (fiewww finally!):
1) My main concern is the windows/unix saga. I'll admit it. I'm using a windows OS. I cannot work on any *nix OS for general reason. I work better on windows environments. Don't flame me for it! I just have to accept it.
Also, my "community" is 99.999% regrouping windows users. I have over 100 windows users but not more then 10 nix users. So, I cannot really afford making a nix only based port.
So RIGHT now, at this precise moment, is there a stable and potentially workable version of CC for windows?
I know Bill Gates sucks. I know Microsoft is a horrible $ eating machine. But the question is not even askable for me. I must use windows.
So would it be possible for me to develop something good enough on a windows plateform? not something I'll have to drop in a month?
2) Is there a strong base on the "actual" CC release? I did not compile it yet. I will in an hour or so. But I wanted to ask. So far, the win32 release, is it "strong" enough to start something good? I don't want to simply compile and claim mine. It has never been my goal and never will be. But stays that beeing the "leveled" programmer that I am, I'll need some strong examples first.
3) The majority using *nix versions, does it mean that the future releases and help will mainly be nix based? Will us *stupid* windows porters be left all alone in our agony? :p
4) Finally and not the lease(sp???), is there a "mod" database? If not, I think one should be started. I always release all my "mods" for open source projects. Is there something like that for CC?
*edit* Adding some stuff
5) I just read around the forum and figured out that the windows *compilable* version is the CVS one(I do have M$ Visual C++).
But I also read that the CVS version won't *work* the python and things like the "casino"(I presume it's cc areas???) will crash the server.
But it was an old post. Is this still the case?
Or someone could guide me towards a NON COMPILED client/server that I can work on using windows? Zanks :p
Thanks for reading(if you did) that pointless long thread. I'm bored
I am an "old" coder from Mirage Online. MO is vb driven. I released my personal release a long time ago and dropped out from it as it's a bit too basic *yet*.
I'm VERY far from beeing a good coder. VERY far. I have the basic knowledge of C/++ and vb but I wouldnt call myself a good coder.
But I see that the CC community is MUCH bigger and "helpfull" then the MO community. Specially with all these manuals around.
I'd really love to start coding for CC, from the coding side to the gfx side.
So here are my questions (fiewww finally!):
1) My main concern is the windows/unix saga. I'll admit it. I'm using a windows OS. I cannot work on any *nix OS for general reason. I work better on windows environments. Don't flame me for it! I just have to accept it.
Also, my "community" is 99.999% regrouping windows users. I have over 100 windows users but not more then 10 nix users. So, I cannot really afford making a nix only based port.
So RIGHT now, at this precise moment, is there a stable and potentially workable version of CC for windows?
I know Bill Gates sucks. I know Microsoft is a horrible $ eating machine. But the question is not even askable for me. I must use windows.
So would it be possible for me to develop something good enough on a windows plateform? not something I'll have to drop in a month?
2) Is there a strong base on the "actual" CC release? I did not compile it yet. I will in an hour or so. But I wanted to ask. So far, the win32 release, is it "strong" enough to start something good? I don't want to simply compile and claim mine. It has never been my goal and never will be. But stays that beeing the "leveled" programmer that I am, I'll need some strong examples first.
3) The majority using *nix versions, does it mean that the future releases and help will mainly be nix based? Will us *stupid* windows porters be left all alone in our agony? :p
4) Finally and not the lease(sp???), is there a "mod" database? If not, I think one should be started. I always release all my "mods" for open source projects. Is there something like that for CC?
*edit* Adding some stuff
5) I just read around the forum and figured out that the windows *compilable* version is the CVS one(I do have M$ Visual C++).
But I also read that the CVS version won't *work* the python and things like the "casino"(I presume it's cc areas???) will crash the server.
But it was an old post. Is this still the case?
Or someone could guide me towards a NON COMPILED client/server that I can work on using windows? Zanks :p
Thanks for reading(if you did) that pointless long thread. I'm bored
CC?commic wrote:Sorry to bump and old (and probably unwanted) subject but I have my little questions before launching myself into CC.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/crossfire/, check the files and cvs section. More information about Crossfire CVS can be found from http://crossfire.real-time.com/cvs/index.html. And in case you've been wondering, the sources are in the .tar.gz packages.commic wrote:Or someone could guide me towards a NON COMPILED client/server that I can work on using windows? Zanks :p
/* Debian GNU/Linux - rebooting is for adding hardware. */
If you check Crossfire Sourceforge's files listing, you'll see a Windows server, and a Windows GTK client, both with installers.
The server installer works fine, client has an issue with GTK that may need to be fixed.
And CVS will compile fine under MSVC, you even have the project files.
As for Python stuff, i don't think it's fixed yet, but i haven't checked.
The server installer works fine, client has an issue with GTK that may need to be fixed.
And CVS will compile fine under MSVC, you even have the project files.
As for Python stuff, i don't think it's fixed yet, but i haven't checked.
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Leaf
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IMHO, as it looks right now, the *nix platform is driving development and the windows side (aka porting) of things is either keeping up or playing catch-up.commic wrote: 3) The majority using *nix versions, does it mean that the future releases and help will mainly be nix based? Will us *stupid* windows porters be left all alone in our agony? :p
If I am wrong about this, someone please correct me.
Be sure to subscribe to the Crossfire development list for further discussion, intentions, coding practices, development ideas, etc. as the mailing list is the official communication forum.
http://mailman.real-time.com/mailman/li ... fire-devel
No official or announced "mod" database. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be one.commic wrote: 4) Finally and not the lease(sp???), is there a "mod" database? If not, I think one should be started. I always release all my "mods" for open source projects. Is there something like that for CC?
Isn't this also in CVS?commic wrote: Or someone could guide me towards a NON COMPILED client/server that I can work on using windows?