Crossfire Forum

Summoned pets DO (or should) cast spells.. Skulls don't do well in hand-to-hand combat..they would be useless if they didn't cast spells!

Do you really want us to give you a list of creatures? I mean, some creatures have a set number of hp/xp.. Do their attributes varry by level? I guess I don't know how to come up with this list without putting imbalance on summoning..

Hey, by the way.. I do like the 2x2 idea.. How do you fix it? "There is something in the way" message and don't create the creature.. I don't know if this is easy or not..

Zortan wrote:Summoned pets DO (or should) cast spells.. Skulls don't do well in hand-to-hand combat..they would be useless if they didn't cast spells!

Which is it?

Summoned pets do cast spells or Summoned pets should cast spells?

I honestly don't know..

Zortan wrote: Do you really want us to give you a list of creatures? I mean, some creatures have a set number of hp/xp.. Do their attributes varry by level? I guess I don't know how to come up with this list without putting imbalance on summoning..

I don't know if their hit points and other stats vary by level. I was trying to point out how there's alot of things to consider in this proposal and it isn't easy.

Zortan wrote: Hey, by the way.. I do like the 2x2 idea.. How do you fix it? "There is something in the way" message and don't create the creature.. I don't know if this is easy or not..

Fix it? Fix what - it ain't broke!

I would think that if it were possible, the "There is something in the way" message feature would have been implemented instead of reverting all the summoned golems to 1x1 creatures.

Logwad wrote:"Avion Posted: It takes me five days just to change my mind..."

what is that supposed to mean?

that its not as easy as you though? that you'd like to nerf summoners more? that aliens really are invading earth?

It means that if you were to come up with new summoner spell arches we could add them pretty quickly but I can't even find the time to finish the few simple spells I'm working on for the ocean goddess or the all the changes to Navar for advanced player starting positions or the smugglers quest map or the shadow elementals or...
You get the picture.
Five days is not even a week you know...

As for nerfing summoners - I think that is illegal in some places.

I believe it is safe to say that fixing up some of the summoned monster lists to add more top end monsters would be good and adding a few spells for fill some gaps would be good as well. Don't expect it this week but it should be possible to do these things without any large changes to the game and thus quickly (by geological standards)...

Helping those that help themselfes:

If you want to tweek the mage summon list - here it is. If you can add good balanced monsters to this then It is as easy as commiting the modifications to this list back to the arches. Also if you want to make a couple different/alternate summon spell with a different set of monsters at different levels then it is easy as well- just create a new spell arch from the existing one, rename it and and link it to the new treasure list instead of this one... There are lots of advantages to the new spell code which I am just wrapping my head around but the biggest is ease of modification.

Balancing it is another matter...

And as Leaf said, stick with single space monsters for now - I have not looked into the why hows of multi-space monsters (except to say I was wondering why the nice god images were not being used ...

Without further ado here is the summon list: I await your comments.








!WARNING SPOILER!










##############################################################
#
# Pet Monsters -
#
treasure mage_pet_monster
arch bat
nrof 2
magic 1
more
arch bird
nrof 1
magic 3
more
arch bee
nrof 3
magic 4
more
arch spider
nrof 1
magic 5
more
arch killer_bee
nrof 2
magic 6
more
arch pixie
nrof 1
magic 7
more
arch skeleton
nrof 2
magic 8
more
arch stalker
nrof 1
magic 9
more
arch devil
nrof 2
magic 11
more
arch beholder
nrof 2
magic 13
more
arch dark_elf
nrof 3
magic 15
more
arch skull
nrof 1
magic 17
more
arch angel
nrof 2
magic 20
more
arch vampire
nrof 1
magic 25
end

I don't remember exactly where, so forgive me for being utterly useless, but the other day (as in yesterday) while playing through a map, I encountered a greater deamon stuck in a wall.. He's 4 or 5 spaces wide, the room was only wide enough for 2 (but it was tall enough).. I thought it was funny, but I then realised about the problem you guys were referring to earlier..

Map didn't crash, I killed it too quickly I guess?

By the way.. since magic seems to go up by 2's, shouldn't the last two be 19 and 21?

Also.. I think there should be an upper limit on sp.. unless the summoned pet is really worth the points.. C'mon.. 25 sp for a vampire? They're useless.. I killed them being a sorcerer at level 8..

Zortan wrote: C'mon.. 25 sp for a vampire? They're useless.. I killed them being a sorcerer at level 8..

A vampire against a non-spellcaster or a character/monster with only attack-type physical is very effective.

A. We should move this thread somewhere else as it is not really a metalforge issue.

B. I think there should be a couple versions of this spell, without changing the basic pet monster spell too much you could have some more rare or more powerful lists available and tucked away someplace. Devil and angel really are not right for the basic pet monster list - too themeatic, there could be entire lists for these - angel and demon lists: summon demon, summon angel

Some creature additions to consider:

dog
wolf
panther
mastif
ape
direwolf


More exotic choices:

shadow pup
hell hound
shadow
shadow mastif

skeleton and vampire are also pretty themeatic and could be part of an summon undead spell along with zombies and banshees and a few choice ghoulies

if there were some obvious gaps in these more themed lists, it would likely spur the creation of a few new monsters too.

In addition, these lists could also do double duty as improved cultmonster lists for some gods but there is no reason not to give these as (more uncommon) summoner spells as well - I don't think that would compromise the game. A summoner specializes in summoning afterall.

C. It's been two days since I posted the list.. what's the hold up?!?

So I made a new spell based on pet monsters called magehound that summons trusty hounds to your side. I believe the magic value actually relates to the casting level but still playing with it. Anyway it's fun so far- maybe too powerful at the low end. Balance is probably way off - especially since the higher level mutts here are largely un-playtested. It's fun when your wolves are chomping away at zombies anyway.


---warning SPOILER -------------









It is level 3 and costs 12 to cast, here is the monster list

##############################################################
#
# Mage Hounds
#
treasure mage_hounds
arch puppy
nrof 1
magic 1
more
arch dog
nrof 1
magic 5
more
arch wolf
nrof 1
magic 7
more
arch mastif
nrof 1
magic 12
more
arch dire_wolf
nrof 1
magic 15
more
arch hellhound
nrof 1
magic 25
more
arch s_mastif
nrof 1
magic 50
end

So is mage-hounds a totally new spell?

You know what would be cool.. Maybe leave summon pet monster the way it is, with the angel being the last summoned creature.. then add few higher-level summons, so say at level 20 if you learn the book of mage-hounds, that is what you are now able to summon (through the new spell)..

Would be cool the way you started describing, to have themed summon spells..
Summon Demon
Summon Angel (Oooo! high-angels!)
Summon Undead (oo.. I don't know
Summon Draco (the baby dragons, etc.)
Summon Mage Hounds

.. although I hope those spells are summoner-only (ie: even though you may find the book for the spells, unless you're a summoner you shouldn't be able to learn it).. This goes along with my idea earlier to have level-limits on non-specialization classes (recap: If you're an evoker, then pyromancy will be level-limited to say 25)..

PS: If you want someone for play testing, I'm game!

Zortan wrote:So is mage-hounds a totally new spell?

Yes you would have to find it and learn it.

Zortan wrote: You know what would be cool.. Maybe leave summon pet monster the way it is, with the angel being the last summoned creature.. then add few higher-level summons, so say at level 20 if you learn the book of mage-hounds, that is what you are now able to summon (through the new spell)..

I agree that pet monster should remain basically the same with some revisions and that these others would be different books of higher level (maybe even some really high level ones...) - keep in mind these spells all reuse use the same base code so if you have a few pets then switch to another version of the spell such as magehound you are still limited by the total number of 'pets' in play that you would be if you just kept casting pet monster... and that is a good thing.

Zortan wrote: .. although I hope those spells are summoner-only (ie: even though you may find the book for the spells, unless you're a summoner you shouldn't be able to learn it).. This goes along with my idea earlier to have level-limits on non-specialization classes (recap: If you're an evoker, then pyromancy will be level-limited to say 25)..

well summoner is a skill so anyone with that skill would be able to learn these spells - doing something different involving limiting skills would be outside the scope of this discussion.