[Topic Split] Partial Resistance code revisited

[mikeeusa22]

Level 14 is nothing.

Look, I'm a map dev, I don't want your suggestions to screw up the game I devote so much time to.

bwah, you react like you dont like i point out an incoherency

if you make a map or a monster i cant deal with, its very likely nobody can (unless they have equipment made by shadow alchemy)

its not a 'whow i am now lvl 14' player but a 'finally, i am lvl 114' player, so you're talking rubbish

[Mith]

Level 14 is nothing.

Look, I'm a map dev, I don't want your suggestions to screw up the game I devote so much time to.

you're a map dev that fails to read whatever i write. i wrote i am NOT lvl 14, but rather lvl 114 (hence, my char is lvl 113 - using metalforge xp table)

If you dont even get this, i likely have to explain my point (again), so here we go:

if you have - say - 50% cold vulnerability, it means that you get 150% of the base damage.

when you're 50% resistant to cold, you 'll be hit with only 50% of the base damage

if you're 100% resistant to fire, 0% of the damage goes trough

adding resistances is non linear - which seems very reasonable to me.

BECAUSE it is non linear, combining 50% vunerability and 100% resistance is still 100% resistance (elementary mathematics) for the damage dealth is 150% *0% damage = 0% damage.

so, i do NOT argue that a fireborn with 4 rings of storm should have 120% resist electricity (but the usual 1 - 0.7^4 = 0.75)
i DO argue that a fireborn worshipping devourers should still have +100% resist fire (105% * 0% damage)

now. please take care to read carefully, Mike...


@cavesomething
I see your point, but you should take in mind one does need more than one 'stupidly powrfull equipment' to beat high lvl monsters like Lorkas and Evil Masters (if you dont want to use tricks with earthwalls and banishment)

If you want to change this, also change the stupid fact a lvl 100 char is almost as powerfull as a lvl 115 char - that is much more bloated than the equipment 'problem' you describe

[cavesomething]

if you have - say - 50% cold vulnerability, it means that you get 150% of the base damage.

when you're 50% resistant to cold, you 'll be hit with only 50% of the base damage

if you're 100% resistant to fire, 0% of the damage goes trough

adding resistances is non linear - which seems very reasonable to me.

up to here you are fine, although I dislike your use of the term non-linear, adding resistances is multiplicative

BECAUSE it is non linear, combining 50% vunerability and 100% resistance is still 100% resistance (elementary mathematics) for the damage dealth is 150% *0% damage = 0% damage.

ooh, abuse of mathematics, fun! let me have a go too....

the +ve and -ve values of resistance are each multiplied together, and the totals subtracted.

So
+100
-50
add
+50%

hey, why not take your approach, but multiply the resistances like you do later on....
((1-0.5)^1)*100% = -50%

@cavesomething
I see your point, but you should take in mind one does need more than one 'stupidly powrfull equipment' to beat high lvl monsters like Lorkas and Evil Masters (if you dont want to use tricks with earthwalls and banishment)

yeah, this I grant, you look up the resistances on the big table on the crossfire website to know which spell/weapon to have ready, and you hover a finger over whichever key you mapped to your golden unicorn horn.

as it stands, you probably have a handful of different weapons that you use, maybe a couple of different helms, possibly even 4 or 5 rings that you cycle through, but, excepting that, you have something approaching a 'best' set of equipment, with only the odd variation here and there. You might alter it to accomadate a new item, maybe change a ring after getting the idaten boots or godfinger, but then you will settle down to not changing very much again.

This, IMHO is a bad thing, it should be that when you use equipment you stand a (very slight but still present) chance of losing it, so that you will need to consider the risk of wearing an item you can't replace.

If you want to change this, also change the stupid fact a lvl 100 char is almost as powerfull as a lvl 115 char - that is much more bloated than the equipment 'problem' you describe

Why is that stupid? there isn't really that much difference between someone who is great at any discipline and one who is the best it is possible to be.

In terms of HP/SP/GR the differences are relatively minor anyway, the 'artifical' aspect that narrows the distinction is the item power code, 100 item power is enough to wear an aweful lot that can be worn with 115 item power, possibly you have to switch from a ring of mithrandir down to a ring of ancient magic, or something similar.

I am not convinced that this is a problem, except to your ego.

[mikeeusa22]

I agree, I can always be found with my WDSM, White Dregon Shield, Jackboots and gloves of light, Cloak of the White Mage, 2 rings of storm, and amulet of sheilding.

What do you use?

[Mith]

ooh, abuse of mathematics, fun! let me have a go too....

why would one call this abuse of mathematics? there is nothing i could even see as remotely abusive, except that it does not fit your idea

the +ve and -ve values of resistance are each multiplied together, and the totals subtracted.

So
+100
-50
add
+50%

this is what i would call abuse of mathematics. I take it you know you cant simply add or substract percentages. At least not in this case. Please convice me it is sound to do the calculation in this way...
You could eventually argue map devs prefer it this way, sure but that is a non argument. There should be a rational argument, not a 'i/we/map devs prefer it this way'.

hey, why not take your approach, but multiply the resistances like you do later on....
((1-0.5)^1)*100% = -50%

even low lvl math shows this results in +50%...

@cavesomething
I see your point, but you should take in mind one does need more than one 'stupidly powrfull equipment' to beat high lvl monsters like Lorkas and Evil Masters (if you dont want to use tricks with earthwalls and banishment)

yeah, this I grant, you look up the resistances on the big table on the crossfire website to know which spell/weapon to have ready, and you hover a finger over whichever key you mapped to your golden unicorn horn.

to find out your golden unicorn horn does not recharge fast enough...

as it stands, you probably have a handful of different weapons that you use, maybe a couple of different helms, possibly even 4 or 5 rings that you cycle through, but, excepting that, you have something approaching a 'best' set of equipment, with only the odd variation here and there. You might alter it to accomadate a new item, maybe change a ring after getting the idaten boots or godfinger, but then you will settle down to not changing very much again.

This, IMHO is a bad thing, it should be that when you use equipment you stand a (very slight but still present) chance of losing it, so that you will need to consider the risk of wearing an item you can't replace.

Why should you be able to loose a piece of armour that is tied up to your body? Same applies to a helmet, for example. You'll rather loose your head than the helmet (and not your head)
I fail to see why there is anything wrong with having a 'optimal' equipment. Matter of fact is you try to evolve a character. That involves searching and finding better equipment (and use it)

How about have 10 characters using a WDSM and each of them loose it once a week. That would cause a run on the WDSM quest, making it worse than hunting Infyrana. (which is almost impossible to kill at Metalforge, not because its hard, but because the map is always 'used')

If you want to change this, also change the stupid fact a lvl 100 char is almost as powerfull as a lvl 115 char - that is much more bloated than the equipment 'problem' you describe

Why is that stupid? there isn't really that much difference between someone who is great at any discipline and one who is the best it is possible to be.

maybe because it is a difference of, say 63 bld xp? (metalforge table)

In terms of HP/SP/GR the differences are relatively minor anyway, the 'artifical' aspect that narrows the distinction is the item power code, 100 item power is enough to wear an aweful lot that can be worn with 115 item power, possibly you have to switch from a ring of mithrandir down to a ring of ancient magic, or something similar.

I am not convinced that this is a problem, except to your ego.

Its mostly the item power restriction that makes it weird. How could a lvl 99 soul be consumed by two lvl 50 items? A lvl 99 soul masters these items, they should have no effect (with respect to item power)

I think the whole item power stuff is just extremely bloated, but commenting on this would require an other topic.

[Leaf]

if you have - say - 50% cold vulnerability, it means that you get 150% of the base damage.

Incorrect.

When you have a negative resistance to an attack type, you take double damage from the attack type.

[Mith]

if you have - say - 50% cold vulnerability, it means that you get 150% of the base damage.

Incorrect.

When you have a negative resistance to an attack type, you take double damage from the attack type.

mmm, does this imply that having -100 and -1 both result in double damage?
That it does not matter if you have -1 or -100?

[bort]

I beleive neg res works as if it is -#, then double the damage, then multiply the damage by the decimal equiv.
E.G. >> -1 res. 100 dam done. 200 dam total. multiply 200 by .01 = 2.02. Then add 2.02 to 100.
Then 102.2 dam done.

[Leaf]

I beleive neg res works as if it is -#, then double the damage, then multiply the damage by the decimal equiv.

Where are you finding this or referencing this from?




And remember, you have to LIE in order to beLIEve

[bort]

Mathematically, it works out, and logically, it works out.
And necessity is the mother of invention. I suggest using an easier equation for
determining damage done with -res.